00:13 Let me see. Kick this off.
00:17 

00:17 Good morning. Good morning. Good
00:20 

00:20 morning.
00:22 

00:22 Um,
00:24 

00:24 I'm glad you've decided to return.
00:28 

00:28 That's a good thing, right Trisha?
00:30 

00:30 People are here.
00:33 

00:33 Um,
00:35 

00:35 also recognizing it is Friday and people
00:37 

00:37 have flights and they're anxious to get
00:39 

00:39 home, I'm sure.
00:41 

00:41 Uh, I want to apologize to the online
00:45 

00:45 group for the abrupt ending uh late
00:49 

00:49 yesterday of our meeting. Um, we had a
00:52 

00:52 little technical difficulty uh and
00:55 

00:55 someone walked over our meeting. Um, so
00:59 

00:59 fortunately you didn't miss anything uh
01:02 

01:02 because we're going to cover those last
01:03 

01:03 few details uh right away this morning.
01:06 

01:06 Some program updates that I have. Um but
01:11 

01:11 uh again uh welcome. Glad you're here uh
01:15 

01:15 to continue the conversation.
01:17 

01:17 Um let's see. I can just forward to the
01:22 

01:22 I'm going to dispense with the
01:26 

01:26 some of the repeat things from yesterday
01:29 

01:29 just to concentrate on today's agenda
01:32 

01:32 and uh I'll do a a brief roll call
01:36 

01:36 again for the members and then I'll get
01:39 

01:39 to the update um that we ended before
01:43 

01:43 yesterday.
01:45 

01:45 So, uh, I'm excited about today actually
01:48 

01:48 about some of the information and the
01:50 

01:50 presentations, uh, that we have and
01:53 

01:53 really appreciate, uh, Roger helping to
01:56 

01:56 organize this and put this together. I
01:58 

01:58 think not only was it an item that came
02:01 

02:01 up during our last meeting of, uh,
02:03 

02:03 people who had interest in and wanted
02:05 

02:05 more information, but it's certainly
02:07 

02:07 relevant and pertinent pertinent to the
02:09 

02:09 the previous discussions that we had
02:11 

02:11 yesterday and some of the comments as
02:13 

02:13 well.
02:16 

02:16 Let's do a brief roll call.
02:22 

02:22 I think I've got everybody in the room
02:24 

02:24 already. So,
02:26 

02:26 um, let's see. But for our online
02:29 

02:29 participants, hopefully we're able to
02:32 

02:32 get some members back. Cassidy, are you
02:35 

02:35 online?
02:37 

02:37 >> Present and accounted for.
02:38 

02:38 >> Great. Thank you, Cassidy.
02:41 

02:41 Uh Rick Washington State,
02:46 

02:46 Rick Katie's here.
02:49 

02:49 I'm here. Cindy Hogland, ARPA.
02:56 

02:56 Cindy Will's here.
02:59 

02:59 Uh Ian's not. Uh Carrie Lavali,
03:04 

03:04 >> I'm here. Good morning.
03:05 

03:05 >> Good morning, Carrie.
03:08 

03:08 Jennifer Lloyd, Tennessee.
03:15 

03:15 Kevin's here. Allan's here.
03:18 

03:18 Devin poor CLR.
03:24 

03:24 Jonathan Porter AGC.
03:30 

03:30 Charlie's here. Dan Ranky, ACC.
03:34 

03:34 >> Good morning all. I'm here.
03:36 

03:36 >> Hi, Dan.
03:39 

03:39 Trisha's here.
03:42 

03:42 Jacob Texas do is not here. He may be
03:46 

03:46 online though. Maybe. Jacob, you online?
03:53 

03:53 And Brad present?
03:56 

03:56 Excellent. Thank you all.
04:03 

04:03 Um, Rackley, do you want to pull up the
04:06 

04:06 Yeah.
04:09 

04:09 So the the few updates that I had um
04:13 

04:13 were primarily around some of our larger
04:15 

04:15 efforts that have been ongoing. Um how
04:19 

04:19 many of you are aware of our ADCMS grant
04:22 

04:22 program? If you could just raise your
04:23 

04:23 hand, it'd be appreciated. So several of
04:26 

04:26 you are. Um it's it's really where we've
04:30 

04:30 spent a lot of
04:32 

04:32 uh funding and energy over the last few
04:35 

04:35 fiscal years in order to accelerate the
04:37 

04:37 adoption of a lot of these digital
04:39 

04:39 delivery techniques and technologies.
04:42 

04:42 For those of you that aren't familiar
04:43 

04:43 with, we do have a website easily
04:45 

04:45 accessible. You can click around and get
04:47 

04:47 information.
04:49 

04:49 Um there's always questions to us about
04:51 

04:51 whether we're continuing it, what's the
04:53 

04:53 status. Um I I actually don't have a lot
04:57 

04:57 of updates I can give you. Um we're
05:00 

05:00 really just kind of waiting on timing.
05:02 

05:02 Um but we have over the last three years
05:06 

05:06 funded over $50 million worth of uh
05:10 

05:10 state DOT projects. Um a lot of
05:12 

05:12 partnerships and collaboration and to
05:15 

05:15 develop tools
05:17 

05:17 uh and processes that are applicable to
05:20 

05:20 uh the entire country. Um so not just
05:23 

05:23 unique bespoke solutions that only one
05:26 

05:26 entity or person could use.
05:29 

05:29 Uh right now that includes about 18 I
05:32 

05:32 believe states or major state projects
05:35 

05:35 that have been funded up till now. We
05:37 

05:37 have this was part of the bipartisan
05:39 

05:39 infrastructure law um legislation that
05:43 

05:43 that provided that money. Uh we do have
05:46 

05:46 about 17 million allocated for FY25
05:51 

05:51 that is being managed. An additional 17
05:54 

05:54 million uh allocated uh to kind of wrap
05:57 

05:57 up the current uh funding authorization.
06:01 

06:01 As we all know, we're going through
06:03 

06:03 reauthorization. So yet to be determined
06:06 

06:06 on what will come out of that. Um, I
06:09 

06:09 think I'm optimistic personally and
06:10 

06:10 expect that there will still be an
06:12 

06:12 emphasis in resources coming forward,
06:14 

06:14 but um, we will see whenever we get to
06:17 

06:17 that part that we've got new highway
06:19 

06:19 bill. Uh, the resources are there. Um,
06:23 

06:23 the program's currently well funded.
06:26 

06:26 We're really just trying to ensure our
06:28 

06:28 next steps align with broader department
06:30 

06:30 strategies and goals before moving
06:32 

06:32 forward.
06:33 

06:33 Um, probably
06:36 

06:36 one of the more important updates is
06:39 

06:39 that because of the strong foundation
06:42 

06:42 that the existing projects have already
06:45 

06:45 laid
06:47 

06:47 um and for wider uh deployment across
06:50 

06:50 the country is that our administration
06:54 

06:54 has announced the next round of everyday
06:57 

06:57 counts uh program. And that everyday
07:01 

07:01 counts program basically provides a
07:03 

07:03 two-year cycle of technical assistance,
07:06 

07:06 peer exchange, and things. It's really
07:08 

07:08 kind of piggybacked on the ADCMS with
07:12 

07:12 those projects. Um, our everyday counts
07:15 

07:15 uh program again is is readily
07:17 

07:17 accessible. This is a program that's
07:19 

07:19 been around since 2011.
07:22 

07:22 It's a two-year cycle program, but it's
07:24 

07:24 to really kind of take what are defined
07:27 

07:27 as proven technologies
07:30 

07:30 um but have not seen broad adoption and
07:33 

07:33 to move them forward. Um, and each
07:37 

07:37 two-year cycle, there's a number of
07:40 

07:40 topics that are selected to advance
07:42 

07:42 nationally from input uh by industry and
07:46 

07:46 state DOS um about which ones have the
07:50 

07:50 the best likelihood of success. So, uh,
07:54 

07:54 Reckley, if you could scroll down a
07:56 

07:56 little bit to the topics. Yeah, right
07:60 

07:60 there. So the EDC round 8 uh was just
08:04 

08:04 announced. Um we are developing uh that
08:08 

08:08 program and strategies and contract
08:10 

08:10 support um so that we can do the peer
08:13 

08:13 exchanges and those kind of things that
08:14 

08:14 have been traditional for our everyday
08:16 

08:16 counts programs. But the integrated
08:19 

08:19 digital project delivery uh topic uh
08:22 

08:22 really builds off of the efforts of the
08:25 

08:25 ADCMS grant program and why we're all
08:28 

08:28 here today and the things that we're uh
08:30 

08:30 discussing. So uh you will see a lot of
08:34 

08:34 information uh on this topic and EDC8 uh
08:38 

08:38 here in the near future um as we get our
08:42 

08:42 ducks in a row and get our contracts uh
08:44 

08:44 awarded to be able to prop that up.
08:48 

08:48 And uh I guess the only other question
08:51 

08:51 that usually we get is just about you
08:53 

08:53 know the funding um and that you know
08:57 

08:57 again just we are funded for 17 million
09:00 

09:00 uh for this year and we're just kind of
09:03 

09:03 dialing in the timing and uh when they
09:05 

09:05 let us know that we can discuss it and
09:08 

09:08 release it and get the next uh notice of
09:11 

09:11 funding opportunity out uh certainly
09:14 

09:14 we'll be giving you all that information
09:17 

09:17 and communicating that as well.
09:25 

09:25 >> No, it the 17 million is just for the
09:27 

09:27 ADCMS. The EDCA program has uh
09:30 

09:30 additional funds, but it's uh we're
09:33 

09:33 waiting on kind of fiscal year
09:35 

09:35 constraints and other things to see what
09:37 

09:37 that total amount be for for per topic.
09:42 

09:42 Any
09:47 

09:47 questions on the programs or certainly
09:51 

09:51 you can find more information if you're
09:53 

09:53 not familiar with them, but they're kind
09:55 

09:55 of the two key items that are happening
09:57 

09:57 right now with regards to digital
09:59 

09:59 delivery um at the department level.
10:07 

10:07 Okay.
10:23 

10:23 Roger. I'm going to turn it over to you
10:25 

10:25 then.
10:41 

10:41 cover.
10:44 

10:44 >> I'll use
10:47 

10:47 Okay. Um, good. Well, um, now we're
10:51 

10:51 going to get started on our workshop.
10:52 

10:52 But first, we're going to look at the
10:54 

10:54 tools again. Make sure we've got
10:56 

10:56 everybody into the mural and the
10:58 

10:58 mentometer. Um, so you can use the QR
11:01 

11:01 code to get into the menntimeter. and um
11:04 

11:04 the UR and if you're in the Zoom,
11:07 

11:07 there's a link to the mural that you can
11:10 

11:10 just click on. Um but if you can't get
11:13 

11:13 into if you're not in the Zoom, um
11:17 

11:17 there's a QR code up here for the men
11:19 

11:19 for the mural also. So that should get
11:22 

11:22 you into the both of them. So we'll wait
11:24 

11:24 a minute for people to get caught up.
11:31 

11:31 All right. And if the QR code's not
11:34 

11:34 working for you, there's a shorter link
11:36 

11:36 here. https
11:38 

11:38 dot
11:41 

11:41 tinyurl.com
11:44 

11:44 ddsg mural. So we know we have a little
11:47 

11:47 trouble with people able to get the
11:49 

11:49 emails we sent out yesterday and
11:51 

11:51 everything. So we're trying to give
11:53 

11:53 multiple ways for you to be able to get
11:55 

11:55 into both the mural and the menter uh
11:58 

11:58 while we sort out whatever the email
11:60 

11:60 issues were. So, um,
12:03 

12:03 so are people able to that that want to
12:06 

12:06 able to get in to to both? Okay, great.
12:09 

12:09 Great. Um, and then, um, did you want to
12:12 

12:12 say anything about the mural?
12:22 

12:22 >> You going to pull the mural up? Yeah.
12:25 

12:25 Yeah. We were um feverishly working in
12:28 

12:28 the mural yesterday as we were going
12:30 

12:30 through taking some notes and dropping
12:32 

12:32 things in. So um we were gonna um give a
12:36 

12:36 little um
12:38 

12:38 quick overview of how to use it um for
12:41 

12:41 you. Yeah.
12:42 

12:42 >> Right. Hello. I'm Rackley Ren. I'm with
12:44 

12:44 uh NIBS. Uh so when you launch into our
12:48 

12:48 mural um you're greeted with this
12:50 

12:50 welcome to the DDSG uh group meeting. Uh
12:53 

12:53 there's a couple rules here. So, the
12:55 

12:55 most important thing is when you get in
12:57 

12:57 there at the bottom, uh, you deselect
12:59 

12:59 broadcast your cursor. Otherwise, we
13:02 

13:02 have, you know, 100 people zooming
13:03 

13:03 around. It looks like flies in the
13:04 

13:04 middle of your screen. That's that's not
13:05 

13:05 very uh not very nice. Um, we encourage
13:09 

13:09 everybody to leave feedback and comments
13:11 

13:11 on the mural here. Um, as you can see,
13:13 

13:13 it's quite um
13:15 

13:15 quite detailed. Um, and so we have a
13:18 

13:18 general meeting comments section. You
13:20 

13:20 know, if you want to leave constructive
13:21 

13:21 feedback or, you know, positive
13:23 

13:23 feedback, ideas, unanswered questions,
13:24 

13:24 things like that, you just double click
13:26 

13:26 or on your phone, you you tap with your
13:28 

13:28 finger and you can type, you know,
13:30 

13:30 whatever you want. Hello. Um, or you're
13:33 

13:33 having a good time.
13:35 

13:35 Uh, we have all the slides put up from
13:37 

13:37 previous presentations. So, this is
13:39 

13:39 today's slide deck. Uh, so it's readily
13:42 

13:42 available there. Um all this information
13:44 

13:44 will also be posted on the DESG hub
13:46 

13:46 website a link to which is also uh here
13:49 

13:49 on the mural.
13:52 

13:52 Um if you also want to subscribe to DASG
13:54 

13:54 updates that's also here. We have a link
13:56 

13:56 to the the menty meter here as well. Um
13:59 

13:59 there's a copy of the agenda. All the
14:01 

14:01 links that we provide in chat and
14:03 

14:03 everything uh that people provide will
14:04 

14:04 also be uh posted here. Um you can see
14:07 

14:07 from yesterday we have you know a few
14:09 

14:09 links and um all the different
14:11 

14:11 presentations that people got. So we had
14:13 

14:13 some really interesting ones from
14:15 

14:15 building smart and everything. Um one
14:18 

14:18 thing to note this is permanent. This uh
14:20 

14:20 this is here concurrently. There's a
14:22 

14:22 room with um a mural room where the
14:25 

14:25 previous meeting mural is also um there
14:28 

14:28 as well. So I just want you to know any
14:31 

14:31 comments you leave that's not going
14:32 

14:32 away. This is not a time thing. This is
14:34 

14:34 meant to be a permanent location for
14:36 

14:36 collaboration. If you guys have ideas,
14:38 

14:38 you want to use it, um, feel free to.
14:40 

14:40 Um,
14:42 

14:42 are there any questions about the mural
14:44 

14:44 or is anybody
14:45 

14:45 >> So, are we changing the mural every time
14:47 

14:47 we meet? So, that link changes.
14:50 

14:50 >> So, yes, there is a a sort of new link
14:53 

14:53 for each individual meeting. However,
14:55 

14:55 there is a mural room which contains all
14:57 

14:57 of these.
14:58 

14:58 >> That link will be put onto the DSU
15:00 

15:00 website. Um, one thing to note about
15:02 

15:02 that, however, when you join the
15:05 

15:05 individual mural link, you can join as a
15:06 

15:06 visitor. You don't have to log into
15:08 

15:08 anything. However, if you want to join
15:09 

15:09 the the room, you do have to make an
15:11 

15:11 account with mural. It is free. Um, and
15:13 

15:13 there's no commitment or anything, but
15:14 

15:14 that's just murals policy for some
15:16 

15:16 reason. Um, so yeah, you'll have to make
15:19 

15:19 a mural account. It's free. Um, and that
15:21 

15:21 will show you all the different previous
15:22 

15:22 murals all in one place. Yes, sir.
15:25 

15:25 >> How do you turn off your uh tracker?
15:27 

15:27 Because I can't seem to find it on my
15:29 

15:29 phone.
15:29 

15:29 >> Right.
15:35 

15:35 in the bottom corner.
15:37 

15:37 >> It seems there's a bumblebee down in the
15:38 

15:38 bottom corner uh where you could
15:40 

15:40 >> bumblebee or fly
15:41 

15:41 >> or fly that you could use to turn off
15:43 

15:43 the uh mural broadcast cursor on your
15:46 

15:46 phone. Uh if you're doing it on your
15:48 

15:48 laptop, however, you mouse over um this
15:50 

15:50 bottom bar here and it's a uh an option
15:53 

15:53 right here you can see on the screen.
15:58 

15:58 Are there any other questions, comments,
15:60 

15:60 concerns related to mural?
16:04 

16:04 >> No. Fantastic.
16:12 

16:12 >> One thing to note that if uh you do want
16:14 

16:14 to provide feedback or ask a question,
16:16 

16:16 uh it's preferred that if you you know
16:18 

16:18 you stand up and you say your name uh
16:19 

16:19 just so people online can can see who's
16:21 

16:21 talking. That was one thing that we uh
16:23 

16:23 had some comments about yesterday is
16:25 

16:25 that people weren't able to see who was
16:26 

16:26 talking and so it was a little bit
16:27 

16:27 confusing. Um so yes, please do stand
16:30 

16:30 up, introduce yourself and then ask your
16:32 

16:32 question or provide feedback. Thank you
16:34 

16:34 very much.
16:36 

16:36 >> Yeah, thanks for the reminder Aley and
16:38 

16:38 also uh remind yourself to just state
16:41 

16:41 your name and who you're with before
16:43 

16:43 your comments. It's helpful for us.
16:47 

16:47 >> Okay, good. All right. Um, so have fun
16:51 

16:51 with mentter or with mural. We're going
16:52 

16:52 to use mentometer in a minute, but I
16:54 

16:54 want to go back to the to this just to
16:57 

16:57 introduce people that are going to be
16:58 

16:58 involved in the workshop today. Um,
17:00 

17:00 myself, Roger Grant, Katherine Petros is
17:04 

17:04 going to say a few things as we get
17:05 

17:05 going here. And then, um, Michael
17:09 

17:09 Pearson with Oklahoma DOT is going to be
17:13 

17:13 presenting on um, their work. I don't
17:16 

17:16 know. And uh Paul Schilcock is going to
17:19 

17:19 share a lot about about ISO 19650 with
17:22 

17:22 us. He's one of the people who
17:24 

17:24 originally developed the British past
17:26 

17:26 standards uh British Standards Institute
17:29 

17:29 standards that this is based on. I'm
17:30 

17:30 sure he'll talk about that. Uh and I
17:33 

17:33 think they're online. Can we see their
17:36 

17:36 Can we see them their cameras? Um so
17:39 

17:39 people can see who they are. And then
17:42 

17:42 also uh Mike Dembler with uh Arizona D
17:46 

17:46 is going to share what Arizona is doing.
17:49 

17:49 I don't know if we can show them, but if
17:51 

17:51 not, we can they will be on camera when
17:53 

17:53 they do their presentations.
17:55 

17:55 >> Yeah, right here. Roger.
17:59 

17:59 >> Michael, Mike, Paul, are you out there?
18:02 

18:02 Say hello.
18:03 

18:03 >> Yeah, right here.
18:05 

18:05 >> Good morning, Roger.
18:06 

18:06 >> As everybody can tell by the accent.
18:11 

18:11 >> Oh, here we go. There's Paul.
18:13 

18:13 >> Good morning.
18:14 

18:14 >> Can you not hear me? Yeah, we hear you,
18:16 

18:16 Paul. Okay.
18:17 

18:17 >> Greetings. Greetings from from Chicago.
18:22 

18:22 >> Mike. Mike, good to see you.
18:25 

18:25 >> Morning.
18:25 

18:25 >> Mike's in Arizona. And Michael here
18:29 

18:29 somewhere, I think. Michael Pearson.
18:33 

18:33 >> I am here.
18:34 

18:34 >> All right. Hello, Michael.
18:37 

18:37 Ah, there you are. Okay. Good. All
18:39 

18:39 right. That's our those are our uh
18:42 

18:42 presenters today going to be helping us
18:44 

18:44 with the workshop. So, okay. Um
18:48 

18:48 Katherine, do you want to just say a few
18:50 

18:50 things to or I think actually Michael
18:53 

18:53 Michael was going to say a few things
18:54 

18:54 about how we got here and then we'll
18:56 

18:56 have Katherine uh say a few words and
18:59 

18:59 then I'll continue. So, Michael's gonna
19:01 

19:01 start off.
19:03 

19:03 >> Well, I can just kick it off and say why
19:06 

19:06 we decided to include this on the
19:07 

19:07 agenda. Um we talked about 19650
19:11 

19:11 last meeting and there was considerable
19:14 

19:14 interest and it really is a foundational
19:16 

19:16 piece of work that talks about the whole
19:19 

19:19 data flows through the whole asset life
19:21 

19:21 cycle. So to the extent that we can all
19:24 

19:24 better understand it I think it's
19:25 

19:25 beneficial for all of us. So this will
19:27 

19:27 just be the initial discussion and then
19:29 

19:29 we can discuss whether we want to dig
19:32 

19:32 even deeper in future meetings to have a
19:34 

19:34 basic understanding of this.
19:37 

19:37 >> Thanks.
19:40 

19:40 Michael, did you have anything you
19:42 

19:42 wanted to add in there?
19:44 

19:44 >> Absolutely. Just want to make sure
19:46 

19:46 everybody can hear me.
19:47 

19:47 >> Yes. Yeah. Loud and clear.
19:49 

19:49 >> Thanks, Roger. Uh, so first off, hi
19:52 

19:52 guys. Uh, I've been watching yesterday
19:54 

19:54 and I've seen a lot of my friends there.
19:55 

19:55 Wish I could be there with you. Uh, so
19:57 

19:57 those of you who don't know me, Mike
19:59 

19:59 Pearson from Oklahoma DOT. And just to
20:01 

20:01 give you a few words of why how we got
20:03 

20:03 here, Oklahoma has been working uh for
20:06 

20:06 the better part of last year trying to
20:07 

20:07 figure out what our project wise
20:09 

20:09 environment is going to look like. And
20:11 

20:11 we got into the framework of what we
20:13 

20:13 were formerly calling 19650
20:15 

20:15 through that process. And then we we
20:17 

20:17 trained our digital delivery group in
20:20 

20:20 the in the standard roughly around 10
20:24 

20:24 folks that included some other folks
20:26 

20:26 outside of our group. And then we saw
20:28 

20:28 great success in understanding what it
20:30 

20:30 was. And then we went out and we trained
20:33 

20:33 construction. We actually trained our
20:35 

20:35 audit office. Uh we I think we got some
20:38 

20:38 maintenance folks in there. And then we
20:39 

20:39 of course we got our design folks in
20:41 

20:41 there. And I think we're up to
20:43 

20:43 um Katie, we have to confirm. I think
20:45 

20:45 we're over 50. We might be pushing 60s
20:48 

20:48 something folks inside the DOT that's
20:50 

20:50 now trained and certified uh in 19650.
20:53 

20:53 So that's a big deal. So as we got
20:54 

20:54 through that process
20:56 

20:56 um talking with Paul and then we got
20:59 

20:59 with Roger we felt like we should bring
21:01 

21:01 this to the digital delivery stakeholder
21:03 

21:03 group at least for as what we've seen in
21:07 

21:07 the last
21:08 

21:08 in the last presentations at least for a
21:11 

21:11 conversation to see if this group should
21:13 

21:13 work on this more than what we have in
21:15 

21:15 the past. So anyway I just want to push
21:17 

21:17 it to the next person. I want to say hi
21:19 

21:19 and we're going to learn more about what
21:21 

21:21 Oklahoma's doing and how we're applying
21:22 

21:22 that framework internally.
21:26 

21:26 >> Great. Thanks. Thanks, Michael. Um,
21:30 

21:30 okay. Um, now, um, we're going to warm
21:33 

21:33 you up with our two opening mentometer
21:37 

21:37 questions.
21:47 

21:47 Okay. Um, does your organization have
21:50 

21:50 any sort of a standard process for
21:53 

21:53 digital delivery information management
21:56 

21:56 that you're aware of
21:59 

21:59 what
22:10 

22:10 I can't hear you? Okay, sure.
22:12 

22:12 Got it. Um, all right.
22:17 

22:17 We're just trying to find out what the
22:18 

22:18 baseline is as we get started here.
22:24 

22:24 Um, good. Well, we're currently
22:26 

22:26 developing a standard process. Great.
22:29 

22:29 Uh, we're discussing the need. We have
22:32 

22:32 one. Good. Well, I think that's very
22:35 

22:35 encouraging to see this weighted to the
22:37 

22:37 left side of the of the um dial here. Um
22:45 

22:45 and um yeah, it's okay. Hopefully after
22:47 

22:47 today you will be sure. So, at least
22:49 

22:49 we'll try to accomplish that um about
22:52 

22:52 what this is about. Um
22:56 

22:56 okay, great. Um
22:59 

22:59 excellent. Well, what does it mean to
23:00 

23:00 have a standard process for digital
23:02 

23:02 delivery information management? We're
23:04 

23:04 going to talk about that today. We tried
23:05 

23:05 to make it general. We don't want to
23:07 

23:07 just focus on the standards and the
23:10 

23:10 numbers and all those kinds of things.
23:12 

23:12 So, this question is kind of general.
23:14 

23:14 Let's let's tee up the next question
23:16 

23:16 now.
23:21 

23:21 And this question is about the standards
23:23 

23:23 that you can use for information
23:25 

23:25 management. Um, are you familiar with
23:28 

23:28 any of these standards? Um,
23:31 

23:31 um, yeah.
23:41 

23:41 Uh, and I guess the information
23:42 

23:42 standards we identified were the ISO
23:45 

23:45 19650 that we talked about already,
23:48 

23:48 information uh, management for building
23:51 

23:51 information modeling, um, the national
23:54 

23:54 BIM standard version 4, and one that I
23:57 

23:57 don't know if anybody would be familiar
23:59 

23:59 with, ANC Ashray NIB standard 224,
24:03 

24:03 um, building information management for
24:05 

24:05 owners, but we'll mention a little bit
24:07 

24:07 about it later.
24:09 

24:09 Okay. Um, so
24:14 

24:14 a range of familiarity. Okay, good. Um,
24:17 

24:17 well, I'm going to just put a little bit
24:19 

24:19 of this. Is there any I don't know. Um,
24:22 

24:22 well, we'll have some comments and
24:23 

24:23 discussion and more polling about this
24:26 

24:26 later. So, I'm going to um put a few
24:30 

24:30 background things up there and then Paul
24:32 

24:32 is going to take over and give us some
24:35 

24:35 um uh deeper information. um to work
24:40 

24:40 with about ISO 19650. But first um I
24:44 

24:44 wanted to kind of use this um to
24:48 

24:48 establish
24:50 

24:50 something. Um so this is the from our
24:54 

24:54 charter. This is the definition of
24:55 

24:55 digital delivery that we have. Digital
24:58 

24:58 delivery uh project delivery method
25:01 

25:01 employs digital technologies such as
25:03 

25:03 models BIM digital environments to and I
25:07 

25:07 highlighted this share design
25:10 

25:10 share design intent product materials
25:14 

25:14 uh materials quantities properties
25:16 

25:16 construction details and other project
25:19 

25:19 data seamlessly. So this is about having
25:22 

25:22 a product
25:23 

25:23 data set, information set, a product
25:26 

25:26 model that tells you what you're going
25:28 

25:28 to build and what's in it and uh how how
25:31 

25:31 things relate to each other. Um and then
25:34 

25:34 it's also and it stresses it's not a
25:37 

25:37 single event but an ongoing process that
25:40 

25:40 transforms how transportation projects
25:42 

25:42 are designed, bid, constructed, and
25:44 

25:44 maintained. So, we've got two concepts
25:46 

25:46 in this definition, product and process.
25:51 

25:51 And um I wanted to um say that uh there
25:55 

25:55 are standards that support process and
25:59 

25:59 product uh and they're they're distinct.
26:02 

26:02 They do different things. Having a
26:03 

26:03 process for how you manage information
26:07 

26:07 is important. and having the information
26:10 

26:10 organized in a way that you can use it
26:13 

26:13 digitally with visualization and uh
26:16 

26:16 properties and all kinds of uh uh uh in
26:21 

26:21 intelligence about the product that
26:23 

26:23 you're creating your bridge or your road
26:26 

26:26 or whatever it might be are both
26:29 

26:29 important things. And in order to um
26:34 

26:34 standardize those things, we have a some
26:36 

26:36 collections of standards international,
26:39 

26:39 national and program and project
26:41 

26:41 requirements are more our own in-house
26:44 

26:44 standards would fall under that
26:46 

26:46 category. So we're going to talk about
26:49 

26:49 the international standards that support
26:52 

26:52 um process management um here and we're
26:56 

26:56 going to talk a little bit about the
26:57 

26:57 national standards that do that as well.
26:60 

26:60 Um, and we've used this uh diagram to
27:04 

27:04 kind of to show this in the past. Um,
27:08 

27:08 and I just wanted to stress that we've
27:11 

27:11 got information management standards at
27:13 

27:13 the top here, exchange standards at the
27:15 

27:15 bottom, exchange standards, which I
27:17 

27:17 think you're familiar with. We're doing
27:20 

27:20 a lot of work with those right now. Um,
27:22 

27:22 industry foundation class model. um how
27:25 

27:25 do you identify a bridge in or a piece
27:29 

27:29 of road in a consistent way using an
27:31 

27:31 open standard. So that's what the BIM
27:34 

27:34 forbridge poolled fund is focused on.
27:36 

27:36 How do we use IFC, IDS, IDM, these uh
27:41 

27:41 components of uh that product modeling
27:44 

27:44 standard to identify a bridge, but we
27:47 

27:47 haven't put as much emphasis on the
27:49 

27:49 process side of things. We don't have
27:51 

27:51 any poolled funds for process
27:53 

27:53 management. We have some ADCMS grants
27:55 

27:55 that are working on that. So we wanted
27:57 

27:57 to talk a little bit more about that and
27:59 

27:59 how what we need to do on the process
28:01 

28:01 side here today. Uh and these are some
28:05 

28:05 of the national efforts that are going
28:06 

28:06 on. We're going to reference a few of
28:08 

28:08 those briefly, but we're mostly going to
28:10 

28:10 focus today on uh these are just some
28:14 

28:14 ways to look at um uh program and
28:17 

28:17 project requirements, contracts. um big
28:20 

28:20 thing there. It's at the bottom um your
28:23 

28:23 in-house standards, but um we're not
28:25 

28:25 going to talk about those today. Of
28:27 

28:27 course, we're going to spend some time
28:28 

28:28 looking at ISO 19650, this primary
28:32 

28:32 process management organization standard
28:36 

28:36 um that's widely used throughout the
28:38 

28:38 world. So Paul's going to tell us about
28:40 

28:40 this and how it works, but I wanted to
28:41 

28:41 put it in the context of information
28:45 

28:45 management and information exchange
28:47 

28:47 standardization. And so, you know, we've
28:49 

28:49 been doing a lot with standardization,
28:51 

28:51 which is great with uh building smart
28:53 

28:53 IFC ISO standards that support how do
28:57 

28:57 you develop a product model, how do you
28:59 

28:59 identify and exchange data? Uh and um we
29:02 

29:02 need to also be doing that with the
29:05 

29:05 process management side. Uh so um I'm
29:10 

29:10 going to turn it over to Paul now to
29:12 

29:12 take us through the the background
29:14 

29:14 information on information management
29:17 

29:17 process standardization and how you uh
29:21 

29:21 and how you can utilize it uh and share
29:24 

29:24 his uh great and extensive experience
29:28 

29:28 uh with us. Paul, I'll let you introduce
29:30 

29:30 yourself and share your background.
29:32 

29:32 We're gonna now turn the screen over to
29:34 

29:34 you to share from your desktop. So,
29:38 

29:38 welcome Paul.
29:41 

29:41 >> Thanks, Roger. Can I just check you can
29:43 

29:43 see my screen and hear me? Okay.
29:48 

29:48 >> Yes, we can.
29:50 

29:50 >> Awesome. Okay. Good morning, everybody.
29:54 

29:54 So, as Roger says, excuse me. Uh my name
29:57 

29:57 is Paul. uh and I've been asked to uh to
29:60 

29:60 speak to you today about the ISO 19 650
30:03 

30:03 standards. Now, let's just get this uh
30:07 

30:07 out of the way. I've presented about ISO
30:10 

30:10 19 650 uh quite a few times and I've
30:12 

30:12 also sat in a number of ISO 19 and 650
30:15 

30:15 presentations and let's face it, it's
30:18 

30:18 not the most exciting uh topic uh
30:21 

30:21 subject matter. And what I don't want to
30:23 

30:23 do is for you to listen to me talking
30:25 

30:25 about it for 50 minutes. So, I
30:27 

30:27 understand this is a workshop sort of
30:29 

30:29 format. So, what I'd like to do is to
30:31 

30:31 split the presentation up into three and
30:34 

30:34 then we'll have a little bit of a Q&A at
30:36 

30:36 the end of each one. Hopefully, uh
30:38 

30:38 that'll spark some uh discussions and
30:41 

30:41 we'll break up the presentation uh just
30:43 

30:43 a little bit.
30:45 

30:45 So when I do present about standards, I
30:47 

30:47 normally put something like this uh on
30:49 

30:49 the screen just to sort of highlight the
30:51 

30:51 importance of uh of standards and and
30:54 

30:54 and how chaotic the world might be if we
30:57 

30:57 if they weren't there. So in the UK we
30:60 

31:00 have what's called the highway code and
31:02 

31:02 that sets out the rules for how
31:05 

31:05 everybody drives um and so that we can
31:08 

31:08 drive together and not basically crash
31:09 

31:09 into each other. So, as this
31:11 

31:11 presentation was in the the US, I
31:13 

31:13 thought I'll just sort of do a quick
31:15 

31:15 search just to see what the equivalent
31:16 

31:16 was in the US and it turns out that you
31:20 

31:20 don't have an equivalent. Um, because it
31:23 

31:23 would appear that almost every state uh
31:25 

31:25 likes to uh have their own set of rules.
31:28 

31:28 Um, there's some rules that you do agree
31:30 

31:30 on at a federal level. So, like for
31:32 

31:32 example, driving on the wrong I mean
31:34 

31:34 sorry on the right hand side of the
31:35 

31:35 road. Um, but then as you get down into
31:38 

31:38 it, it appears that different there's
31:40 

31:40 different speed limits. There's can you
31:42 

31:42 turn right on the light or not? Can you
31:44 

31:44 overtake? And yeah, although I've drove
31:46 

31:46 in the US quite a bit, I've never I
31:47 

31:47 don't think I've ever drove through the
31:49 

31:49 states. Um, so yeah, but I can imagine
31:52 

31:52 it's it's probably quite uh problematic,
31:54 

31:54 but it's a good example of where having
31:57 

31:57 multiple standards uh when you're trying
31:60 

31:60 to uh collaborate uh can present a
32:02 

32:02 challenge.
32:04 

32:04 And I think this is one of the things
32:06 

32:06 just bringing it back to uh the sort of
32:08 

32:08 the built environment whereas uh one of
32:11 

32:11 the biggest challenges that we have is
32:12 

32:12 this thing around you know uh
32:14 

32:14 everybody's got their own particular way
32:16 

32:16 of of managing and producing
32:18 

32:18 information. some of those have been uh
32:21 

32:21 have been long established.
32:23 

32:23 Um and the problem with this is from an
32:25 

32:25 information management point of view and
32:27 

32:27 again trying to link this back to the
32:29 

32:29 work that the DDSG are trying to do for
32:32 

32:32 each uh DOT to go away and generate
32:36 

32:36 their own processes for how to manage
32:38 

32:38 information effectively um isn't quite
32:41 

32:41 isn't very effective and you're going to
32:43 

32:43 end up with 52 ways of uh of doing it. I
32:47 

32:47 hope I've got the number right. And then
32:49 

32:49 from an information production point of
32:50 

32:50 view, as as um Roger was just saying
32:52 

32:52 about it being a product, if you're
32:54 

32:54 looking to exchange that information or
32:56 

32:56 exchange that product with other
32:57 

32:57 parties, then all that information needs
33:00 

33:00 to be produced using the same sort of
33:02 

33:02 rule set. All right? And that's the sort
33:04 

33:04 of the basis around where these
33:06 

33:06 standards are. And you know, the great
33:09 

33:09 thing about standards is that obviously
33:10 

33:10 everybody has one. Now, this isn't to
33:13 

33:13 say that whatever standards that or
33:15 

33:15 processes that you've been using are not
33:18 

33:18 are not great or they're wrong or you
33:20 

33:20 know they could be improved. The problem
33:22 

33:22 is that everybody has one. And so what
33:24 

33:24 ISO 19650 does as an international
33:27 

33:27 standard as all international standards
33:29 

33:29 do is offer a unified approach that in
33:34 

33:34 theory each of the states could align
33:36 

33:36 their business processes with. Okay. And
33:38 

33:38 in that way you can sort of develop
33:40 

33:40 those together um but with the the
33:43 

33:43 ability to tailor those to your specific
33:47 

33:47 needs of each uh DOT. But the
33:49 

33:49 fundamental framework that is used is an
33:53 

33:53 international uh standard that will then
33:55 

33:55 permeate through your supply chain in
33:58 

33:58 terms of them being able to um work for
34:01 

34:01 multiple DOS without having to change
34:03 

34:03 all their business processes. And if
34:06 

34:06 those organizations work internationally
34:08 

34:08 again, they will already be prepared to
34:11 

34:11 be able to manage and produce
34:12 

34:12 information internationally as well.
34:16 

34:16 Okay, so that's just sort of setting the
34:18 

34:18 scene. Just a little bit about myself.
34:19 

34:19 Um, so as say my name is Paul. Uh, I am
34:22 

34:22 a military engineer by background. So I
34:24 

34:24 was in the Royal Engineers uh for just
34:26 

34:26 under a decade. still probably the most
34:30 

34:30 collaborative environment that I've
34:31 

34:31 worked in uh in terms of individuals and
34:34 

34:34 teams working together to you know
34:36 

34:36 develop and produce produce information.
34:39 

34:39 It was only when I came out the military
34:40 

34:40 did I discover things like contracts and
34:43 

34:43 profits and all these other barriers
34:45 

34:45 that uh the world puts in in in front of
34:48 

34:48 us that prevents us from actually
34:49 

34:49 collaborating uh effectively. After lead
34:53 

34:53 leaving leaving the military, um
34:55 

34:55 probably one of my my main roles was
34:57 

34:57 with transport for London uh and London
34:60 

34:60 Underground. And I was there for five
35:02 

35:02 years and my role there was it was a new
35:05 

35:05 role and it was to try and uh improve
35:08 

35:08 the way in which London Underground
35:09 

35:09 procured, used and managed information
35:11 

35:11 about its assets. Um and some of those
35:14 

35:14 areund odd 160 odd years old now. So
35:18 

35:18 it's quite a interesting time. But I can
35:21 

35:21 s assure you that I understand the
35:23 

35:23 challenges that a lot of the DOS are
35:26 

35:26 going through in terms of their exa
35:28 

35:28 existing asset base but also the you
35:30 

35:30 know the speed at which you're looking
35:32 

35:32 to try and uh replace and build new
35:35 

35:35 infrastructure
35:36 

35:36 and that's really what sort of set me on
35:38 

35:38 my journey with oper and oper academy.
35:41 

35:41 So we've been going for uh about uh 14
35:44 

35:44 years and our main aim and our mission
35:46 

35:46 is to try and help organizations to
35:48 

35:48 align their business processes with the
35:50 

35:50 latest industry standards and best
35:52 

35:52 practice for the management of
35:54 

35:54 information. And a big part of that is
35:56 

35:56 around helping uh educating individuals
35:59 

35:59 and teams to understand what the
36:01 

36:01 information management process is, what
36:03 

36:03 their role is within it, and simply to
36:06 

36:06 have more informed conversations around
36:09 

36:09 what it is and what it's not. uh which
36:11 

36:11 has been particularly challenging over
36:13 

36:13 the last decade as we've sort of had the
36:15 

36:15 sort of the more sexy end of information
36:17 

36:17 management and and BIM trying to sort of
36:20 

36:20 you know detract away from the sort of
36:21 

36:21 the the fundamental principles of
36:24 

36:24 information management
36:26 

36:26 um and as a sideline uh I also sit on a
36:31 

36:31 a committee called BRE 5 within the
36:34 

36:34 British Standards Institute um and as
36:37 

36:37 Roger said I was co-author of the UK 119
36:40 

36:40 92 uh standards mainly part two which
36:43 

36:43 looked at the delivery phase uh and I
36:46 

36:46 was then asked to elevate those to
36:48 

36:48 international level. So I'm the author
36:49 

36:49 of ISO 19650 part two and I've been
36:52 

36:52 involved in development of those
36:54 

36:54 standards uh for coming up to a decade
36:56 

36:56 or 12 years uh and spent the last two
36:59 

36:59 years uh reviewing those and I'll talk
37:02 

37:02 about those a little bit later. And then
37:04 

37:04 when not doing all that, I enjoy a
37:06 

37:06 little bit of trifon, although I haven't
37:08 

37:08 quite made it over to Kona. Uh, but you
37:10 

37:10 never know. Uh, and feel free to connect
37:13 

37:13 with me on LinkedIn. There's a QR code
37:14 

37:14 there. Okay, that's more than enough
37:16 

37:16 about me. Let's get into it in terms of
37:19 

37:19 the standards. So, where to start? I
37:23 

37:23 think from a ISO 19650 perspective, it's
37:25 

37:25 probably good place to start is the
37:27 

37:27 title. So, it's quite a long one.
37:29 

37:29 There's probably the bit in bold uh that
37:31 

37:31 you need to be focusing in because
37:32 

37:32 that's what um the first bit is around
37:35 

37:35 the the subcommittee but it's around
37:37 

37:37 information management using building
37:38 

37:38 information modeling um it's a little
37:42 

37:42 bit um there's a lot of interpretations
37:45 

37:45 of what that actually means uh I feel
37:47 

37:47 out in industry from my perspective um
37:50 

37:50 the reason behind this is that if we um
37:53 

37:53 you know if you want to adopt BIM if you
37:55 

37:55 want to uh implement modern uh methods
37:58 

37:58 of production
37:60 

37:60 then you need to think about and change
38:02 

38:02 the way you manage that information and
38:04 

38:04 information manage ISO 19650 is the way
38:07 

38:07 to do that. So if you want to do BIM
38:10 

38:10 then you need to manage information in
38:12 

38:12 this way. But at the same time if you're
38:14 

38:14 not thinking about doing BIM and you're
38:16 

38:16 producing information you can still
38:19 

38:19 adopt ISO 19650. And I think that's the
38:21 

38:21 sort of the important point around
38:23 

38:23 whether you do or you don't. It's not
38:25 

38:25 linked to whether or not you believe
38:27 

38:27 whatever you understand BIM to be as to
38:29 

38:29 whether you're actually uh doing BIM.
38:32 

38:32 So at the moment there are six parts
38:34 

38:34 within the series and I'll very quickly
38:37 

38:37 run through each part I believe if just
38:39 

38:39 in case you're not familiar with those.
38:42 

38:42 So part one looks at the concepts and
38:44 

38:44 principles for information management.
38:46 

38:46 Uh and that is looking throughout the
38:47 

38:47 asset life cycle. So another
38:49 

38:49 misconception about ISO 19650 is that
38:52 

38:52 it's just for the delivery phase. It's
38:54 

38:54 very much around the entire asset life
38:58 

38:58 cycle. So part one if you're new to
39:00 

39:00 information management or ISO 19650 is
39:03 

39:03 probably a good place to start. All
39:05 

39:05 right because it's going to give you a
39:06 

39:06 good understanding of the key concepts
39:08 

39:08 within the standard. Part two is looking
39:12 

39:12 at the information manager process
39:14 

39:14 during the delivery phase of assets. Um
39:17 

39:17 now why is part two first? Um well the
39:21 

39:21 reality of it is is because when we uh
39:23 

39:23 did the UK standards we knew more about
39:25 

39:25 delivery than we did about operations.
39:28 

39:28 Okay. And so part three was the
39:31 

39:31 operational phase of assets. Now for me
39:34 

39:34 part three is actually the prequel to
39:36 

39:36 part two. Um so particularly if you're
39:38 

39:38 working within the DOS then probably
39:41 

39:41 part three is your starting point. All
39:43 

39:43 right, because that's what is going to
39:44 

39:44 from an organizational level is going to
39:48 

39:48 uh help you uh get everything you need
39:50 

39:50 in place in order to manage information
39:53 

39:53 effectively throughout that asset life
39:54 

39:54 cycle. And then you apply part two as
39:57 

39:57 and when you have an actual uh project.
40:01 

40:01 Part four looks at the exchange of
40:03 

40:03 information between uh parties. So this
40:06 

40:06 is probably more linked to some of those
40:08 

40:08 exchange standards that Roger referred
40:11 

40:11 to uh predominantly around Kobe. Um so
40:14 

40:14 it's looking at how to exchange not just
40:17 

40:17 geometrical information but more
40:18 

40:18 importantly the the actual data with
40:21 

40:21 with other parties. Um so that's I guess
40:24 

40:24 the equivalent of where sort of Kobe and
40:26 

40:26 those other exchange standards uh would
40:28 

40:28 sit.
40:30 

40:30 Part five uh looks at what we call
40:32 

40:32 adopting a security-minded approach to
40:35 

40:35 managing information.
40:37 

40:37 Now this came about because I think um
40:40 

40:40 for most asset owners um their their
40:43 

40:43 approach to security was that well if if
40:45 

40:45 we can't find the information about the
40:47 

40:47 assets then no one else can. Um but in a
40:50 

40:50 world where we are now trying to create
40:52 

40:52 structured data about our assets um that
40:55 

40:55 opens up a whole new world of
40:56 

40:56 vulnerabilities. Now, this isn't just
40:58 

40:58 about cyber security. All right? There's
41:00 

41:00 a whole other set of standards under ISO
41:04 

41:04 27,000 that looks at sort of the cyber
41:07 

41:07 security elements. This is about
41:08 

41:08 adopting a security minded approach as
41:10 

41:10 an asset owner uh when you're managing
41:13 

41:13 information about sensitive assets. All
41:16 

41:16 right? So, it'll take you through a
41:18 

41:18 triage process uh and then help you work
41:20 

41:20 out what those additional measures might
41:22 

41:22 be. But certainly if you're looking
41:24 

41:24 after critical national infrastructure,
41:26 

41:26 it's certainly one that you probably
41:27 

41:27 want to be having a look at. And then
41:30 

41:30 last but not least, a new kid on the
41:32 

41:32 block. Um there's part six. This was
41:35 

41:35 published early last year and looks at
41:38 

41:38 the uh health and safety information. So
41:41 

41:41 this is about trying to get away from
41:44 

41:44 the box of paper that gets delivered at
41:47 

41:47 the end of a project and put into a room
41:49 

41:49 somewhere that contains all the risks
41:51 

41:51 and health and safety information that
41:53 

41:53 people who are operating and maintaining
41:55 

41:55 those assets need. This is about trying
41:57 

41:57 to get that information into the to the
42:01 

42:01 people who need it when they actually
42:03 

42:03 need it in a digital format. So again,
42:06 

42:06 for those of you involved around that
42:08 

42:08 that thing um health and safety aspect
42:10 

42:10 and risk, then that's probably another
42:12 

42:12 starting point for you. So that uh
42:15 

42:15 completes the ISO 19650 uh series as it
42:20 

42:20 stands today. However, uh parts one,
42:24 

42:24 two, and three are currently under
42:26 

42:26 review. So this was an automatic review.
42:29 

42:29 So every ISO standard is uh is reviewed
42:32 

42:32 at the 5year mark. So these were mo
42:35 

42:35 mainly published in 2018 though part
42:37 

42:37 three was uh 2020 but because of it
42:40 

42:40 close relationship of part one and two
42:42 

42:42 we've grouped those together. Um so in
42:46 

42:46 terms of the reasons behind that what
42:48 

42:48 we're looking to do is that we have
42:51 

42:51 around seven years of lessons learned of
42:53 

42:53 implementing these standards not just uh
42:56 

42:56 in the UK where they originated but now
42:58 

42:58 they're being globally adopted. A lot of
43:01 

43:01 the international members of the working
43:02 

43:02 group are bringing a lot of lessons
43:04 

43:04 learned about their implementation
43:07 

43:07 within their countries uh and regions
43:09 

43:09 and that includes uh the US. So we have
43:12 

43:12 representation uh from the US via an um
43:15 

43:15 on the working group.
43:18 

43:18 Also the industry is matured. I think
43:20 

43:20 the fact that the DDSG is being set up
43:22 

43:22 shows you, you know, the the increase in
43:24 

43:24 maturity from a client point of view
43:26 

43:26 from a DOT perspective in the US and
43:28 

43:28 that's being replicated uh around the
43:31 

43:31 world in terms of a lot of clients now
43:33 

43:33 starting to increase maturity around
43:35 

43:35 understanding what information they need
43:37 

43:37 and getting better at procuring from
43:39 

43:39 their supply chain and then also the
43:42 

43:42 series development. So when one, two,
43:44 

43:44 and three were were produced obviously
43:46 

43:46 four, five and six were not. So what
43:49 

43:49 we're looking to do is to to get better
43:51 

43:51 alignment, excuse me, across uh the six
43:54 

43:54 standards.
43:56 

43:56 So this is what the six standards look
43:58 

43:58 like at the moment. All right. So we've
43:60 

43:60 got uh concepts and principles uh the
44:02 

44:02 delivery phase and the operational
44:05 

44:05 phases are are separated in parts two
44:07 

44:07 and three and then information exchange,
44:09 

44:09 security minded approach and health and
44:11 

44:11 safety information.
44:14 

44:14 So what we do know in terms of the uh
44:16 

44:16 review um is that part two will now
44:20 

44:20 focus on the information management
44:21 

44:21 process across the entire asset life
44:24 

44:24 cycle. So we're not planning to separate
44:26 

44:26 the two parts two and three. And I think
44:29 

44:29 this is a really uh big and important
44:31 

44:31 step uh for the ISO 19650 series. It
44:34 

44:34 really puts the asset owner uh front and
44:37 

44:37 center of the information management
44:39 

44:39 process and I I'll talk a bit bit more
44:41 

44:41 about that later. Um but the fact now is
44:44 

44:44 you know bringing these sort of two
44:46 

44:46 worlds of operation and delivery uh
44:48 

44:48 together. You know we talk a lot about
44:51 

44:51 starting with the end of mind. All right
44:53 

44:53 but now we've actually put a process
44:55 

44:55 together by combining and unifying parts
44:58 

44:58 two and three into a single process. is
45:00 

45:00 that very much at the organization level
45:03 

45:03 you're starting with the end in mind and
45:05 

45:05 then that then feeds into all the
45:08 

45:08 projects and appointments uh that are
45:09 

45:09 subsequently done on existing and new
45:11 

45:11 assets. So that's part two uh and part
45:15 

45:15 three is the will now become the
45:18 

45:18 implementation guidelines for that
45:20 

45:20 information management process. So
45:22 

45:22 looking at different uh scenarios upon
45:25 

45:25 which you can implement the process
45:27 

45:27 looking at it from different
45:28 

45:28 perspectives. So from the asset owner
45:29 

45:29 perspective, from a delivery team's
45:31 

45:31 perspective, uh mega giga projects,
45:34 

45:34 complex projects, all the way down to
45:36 

45:36 simple straightforward sort of
45:38 

45:38 repeatable type uh projects. So there'll
45:40 

45:40 be a whole load of uh implementation
45:42 

45:42 guidelines in there. So that's what we
45:45 

45:45 know so far. What we don't know exactly
45:47 

45:47 just yet is what those uh revisions are
45:50 

45:50 going to look like. So a couple of weeks
45:52 

45:52 ago, both parts one, two, or well, all
45:55 

45:55 part one, two, and three were released
45:58 

45:58 for public consultation. So we're in
46:02 

46:02 week two of a 12week process. Uh after
46:05 

46:05 that, we will know more. Um, but the
46:07 

46:07 expectations are that it's probably
46:09 

46:09 going to be into early next year,
46:12 

46:12 possibly if depending on how the review
46:14 

46:14 goes, it could be uh beyond that into
46:17 

46:17 sort of Q2 uh Q3 of of to 2027.
46:22 

46:22 So, I think the overarching message
46:24 

46:24 there is to sort of keep calm and carry
46:27 

46:27 on. All right? So nothing's really even
46:30 

46:30 if they are published at the start of
46:32 

46:32 2027, you know, nothing's going to
46:35 

46:35 happen overnight. So it's very much the
46:38 

46:38 current standards as they are are still
46:40 

46:40 very much relevant. And in fact, the the
46:44 

46:44 updates to them are more of a a
46:46 

46:46 restructuring as opposed to uh being
46:49 

46:49 rewritten. So you would be in a very
46:51 

46:51 good position if you were already
46:52 

46:52 aligned with the current standards as
46:55 

46:55 and when uh those new standards uh are
46:58 

46:58 published.
47:01 

47:01 Okay, I can't see all of you, but I'm
47:04 

47:04 hoping that some of you at least still
47:05 

47:05 awake. All right, so what I'll do is I
47:07 

47:07 might pause just for a moment and just
47:09 

47:09 to see if there are any questions on
47:11 

47:11 what we've covered so far.
47:18 

47:18 >> Any questions? Don't be shy,
47:28 

47:28 >> Paul. Hey, it's Roger. Um,
47:30 

47:30 >> hi, Roger.
47:31 

47:31 >> Hey, I guess you did say this, but just
47:34 

47:34 to maybe reiterate it. So, uh, parts two
47:38 

47:38 and three are being retitled and things
47:41 

47:41 are being moved around, but the sections
47:44 

47:44 that exist today that have content in
47:46 

47:46 them, they'll still be there somewhere
47:48 

47:48 with some revisions. Is that correct?
47:50 

47:50 So, if you're implementing using it now,
47:53 

47:53 you can, as you said, carry on and it'll
47:57 

47:57 be traceable.
47:60 

47:60 Yeah, I think um
48:03 

48:03 yeah what we've tried to do obviously
48:04 

48:04 when when the subcommittee
48:06 

48:06 instructed the working group to combine
48:09 

48:09 parts two and three uh and the
48:12 

48:12 information manager process from the
48:14 

48:14 delivery phase and the operational
48:16 

48:16 phase. Naturally there's going to be
48:17 

48:17 some restructuring that's going to be
48:19 

48:19 needed uh as part of that. Um but that
48:22 

48:22 was the starting point in terms of how
48:24 

48:24 can we combine the two processes. The
48:27 

48:27 terminology within parts two and three
48:29 

48:29 was also slightly different. So I think
48:32 

48:32 there's what we've also had to do is to
48:34 

48:34 look at how we can unify the language
48:37 

48:37 within both parts. Um and that was a bit
48:41 

48:41 of a challenge because on the one hand
48:43 

48:43 part two is a sort of very sort of
48:45 

48:45 delivery focused procurement type
48:48 

48:48 focused language
48:50 

48:50 whereas uh on the part three it was more
48:53 

48:53 of a sort of an asset management uh
48:55 

48:55 operational type sort of language. So we
48:57 

48:57 tried to bring those uh together. The
49:00 

49:00 other consideration with the language is
49:03 

49:03 the translation. So the standards have
49:05 

49:05 actually been translated into several
49:07 

49:07 different languages and and potentially
49:10 

49:10 more in the pipeline, but because of the
49:13 

49:13 sort of slight nuances with some of the
49:15 

49:15 language as well, we've had to we've
49:17 

49:17 tried to look at that and propose some
49:19 

49:19 new terminology. uh and I think it's
49:21 

49:21 probably fair to say there's a bit of a
49:23 

49:23 split camp uh in that in terms of people
49:26 

49:26 who think the uh the changes uh have
49:30 

49:30 made the language simplifi simpler uh
49:32 

49:32 and more accessible uh and those who
49:34 

49:34 think that it's it's probably not the
49:36 

49:36 best idea uh given that we've invested
49:39 

49:39 so much in terms of the existing
49:40 

49:40 language but we shall see in terms of
49:43 

49:43 the review in terms of the the the trans
49:45 

49:45 transition I feel um on the delivery
49:49 

49:49 side uh From a delivery team
49:51 

49:51 perspective, there's very little apart
49:53 

49:53 from some of the terminology changes um
49:56 

49:56 that we've proposed. Um if anything,
49:59 

49:59 we're proposing to simplify it. Um I
50:02 

50:02 think the biggest change is probably
50:03 

50:03 going to be with the asset owner. Um but
50:07 

50:07 again, it's probably more on the basis
50:09 

50:09 that there's a combination now of the of
50:12 

50:12 their their roles. We have tried to sort
50:14 

50:14 of introduce some new activities
50:17 

50:17 um at the very start. So looking at more
50:20 

50:20 organizational strategy for information
50:22 

50:22 management and establishing the
50:24 

50:24 resources that you need to actually
50:26 

50:26 implement that strategy. Um but again a
50:29 

50:29 lot of the activities for the asset
50:31 

50:31 owner what we tried to do is trying to
50:33 

50:33 simplify it uh and to make it so that we
50:36 

50:36 can you know we have struggled to get
50:38 

50:38 the asset owners uh on board. it's
50:41 

50:41 probably fair to say. Um, and so what
50:43 

50:43 we're trying to do is to try and look at
50:45 

50:45 that and so try and make it as easy as
50:47 

50:47 we can uh for asset owners to sort of
50:49 

50:49 get on board.
50:57 

50:57 >> Yeah, thanks Paul. Uh, this is Matt. Uh,
51:02 

51:02 on the terminology side, I from my
51:04 

51:04 understanding I know there were a lot of
51:06 

51:06 things that were just trying to
51:07 

51:07 re-emphasize. is I think like you said
51:09 

51:09 the information management and
51:10 

51:10 information production and not so much
51:14 

51:14 focus on BIM as a terminology
51:18 

51:18 >> but the one item that I I think has been
51:21 

51:21 pretty common at least in the US is the
51:23 

51:23 BIM execution plan and I think that was
51:26 

51:26 proposed to be uh re retermed as well um
51:31 

51:31 but
51:33 

51:33 since you're more involved in the
51:35 

51:35 details would the BIM execution plan
51:37 

51:37 whatever the termin technology changes.
51:39 

51:39 It's not really changing what the BIM
51:40 

51:40 execution plan is per se. Is that
51:43 

51:43 correct?
51:45 

51:45 >> Um, no, it's not changing the uh the out
51:48 

51:48 outcome that we're looking for from uh
51:51 

51:51 from the output. Um, as you say, what we
51:54 

51:54 try to do or what we're proposing is to
51:58 

51:58 align the terminology with either
51:60 

51:60 information management or information
52:02 

52:02 production. So a lot of terms like
52:04 

52:04 execution, exchange, delivery um have
52:08 

52:08 all been now sort of aligned with with
52:10 

52:10 one of those two. Um so there is a
52:13 

52:13 proposal to change the uh the the name
52:16 

52:16 of the output in terms of the BIM
52:18 

52:18 execution plan. Um but what I would say
52:22 

52:22 uh having sort of looked at uh the work
52:25 

52:25 that's being done in the US and the the
52:27 

52:27 adoption as it stands at the moment uh
52:31 

52:31 and my understanding is that in the US
52:33 

52:33 the BIM execution plan sits at the
52:35 

52:35 project level
52:37 

52:37 um whereas currently in ISO 19650 the
52:41 

52:41 BIM execution plan sits at the
52:43 

52:43 appointment level
52:45 

52:45 so there's already regardless of what
52:47 

52:47 revisions are agreed or not in the
52:49 

52:49 updates. I think that's probably as you
52:52 

52:52 say it's it's quite uh an an embedded
52:56 

52:56 concept in the US. Uh however, it's
52:58 

52:58 embedded at the a slightly different
53:00 

53:00 level than it is within the ISO
53:02 

53:02 standards. So that's certainly something
53:04 

53:04 for the um the tag um as a technical
53:09 

53:09 advisory group
53:12 

53:12 uh to uh certainly one for them to
53:14 

53:14 ponder in your national annex.
53:18 

53:18 Yeah, very good. Thank you. That's
53:19 

53:19 helpful.
53:22 

53:22 >> Okay, I think
53:23 

53:23 >> maybe Paul maybe I'll just add one thing
53:25 

53:25 to that is that um the BIM we also have
53:28 

53:28 the opportunity in each country to have
53:31 

53:31 our own terminology which we do through
53:33 

53:33 our forward and our annex and that's a
53:36 

53:36 way to align where there are differences
53:39 

53:39 in the way things are done
53:40 

53:40 internationally. Uh, and um, we we might
53:44 

53:44 talk we'll talk a little bit more about
53:46 

53:46 that after Paul's done when Jay Klein
53:48 

53:48 joins us from NIB. So,
53:53 

53:53 >> awesome. Okay. Right. I'm going to uh,
53:56 

53:56 carry on. So, let me just share my
53:58 

53:58 screen again.
54:01 

54:01 Okay. So, what I'm going to look at now
54:02 

54:02 is the actual information management
54:04 

54:04 process itself. And I think when we talk
54:06 

54:06 about information management um it's
54:09 

54:09 it's natural for a lot of people to to
54:11 

54:11 just instantly think of ISO 19650 and
54:15 

54:15 what we see actually is in a lot of
54:17 

54:17 contracts and a lot of strategies is you
54:19 

54:19 know just follow 650 um but you know and
54:24 

54:24 and that's largely because of the way
54:26 

54:26 the standards are being promoted. But
54:28 

54:28 what I'd like if there's one thing that
54:30 

54:30 you were to take away from uh this talk
54:33 

54:33 is that information management yes the
54:35 

54:35 process is defined uh within the
54:38 

54:38 standards but it is actually very much a
54:40 

54:40 business process. Okay, that's probably
54:42 

54:42 the key thing uh for you to take away.
54:45 

54:45 And we've already as Oper Academy, we've
54:48 

54:48 already combined uh the two processes a
54:51 

54:51 few years ago. Um and within that the
54:55 

54:55 step there are eight steps within the
54:58 

54:58 information management process. Uh each
55:00 

55:00 step needs has got contains activities
55:03 

55:03 which need to be completed before you
55:05 

55:05 move on to the next step. All right. So
55:07 

55:07 like any process, it's a um a set of
55:10 

55:10 interrelated activities that convert
55:13 

55:13 inputs into outputs for a desired
55:16 

55:16 result. And in this case, the desired
55:19 

55:19 result is that the right people have the
55:21 

55:21 right information at the right time to
55:23 

55:23 make the right decisions. All right,
55:25 

55:25 that's what we're looking to achieve. So
55:28 

55:28 if you if you look at it laid out like
55:30 

55:30 this, what you can see is that there are
55:32 

55:32 some activities um that can be done uh
55:35 

55:35 in parallel. So they're the ones that
55:37 

55:37 are stacked and then there are some that
55:39 

55:39 you have to do in serial because of the
55:42 

55:42 inputs or the dependent on outputs from
55:45 

55:45 the preceding step as inputs. Okay? And
55:49 

55:49 each step contains these activities. And
55:51 

55:51 I know you can't read them, but the
55:53 

55:53 point here is just to try and visualize
55:55 

55:55 what that information management process
55:57 

55:57 looks like when you lay out uh as a as a
56:00 

56:00 business process diagram.
56:02 

56:02 And when you look at it like this, it
56:04 

56:04 does look very linear. And I think this
56:06 

56:06 is another area where a lot of people
56:08 

56:08 get mixed up in the sense that they try
56:10 

56:10 and overlay their project management
56:12 

56:12 process onto this. Okay. And that's not
56:15 

56:15 how the information manager process is
56:18 

56:18 designed. The main reason for that is
56:20 

56:20 because steps two to seven are repeated
56:24 

56:24 for each and every appointment on a
56:27 

56:27 project. Okay. So every project that you
56:30 

56:30 run, every time you you you have an
56:32 

56:32 appointment and that can be either an
56:34 

56:34 internal appointment. So if you've got
56:36 

56:36 an internal design team or internal
56:38 

56:38 construction team or maintenance team,
56:41 

56:41 then that is that that appointment will
56:43 

56:43 look like a work construction. Or if
56:46 

56:46 it's external, that appointment will
56:48 

56:48 tend to look like a contract. But steps
56:50 

56:50 two to seven are repeated for each and
56:52 

56:52 every appointment.
56:55 

56:55 So what the information manager process
56:57 

56:57 looks like is a little bit more like
56:58 

56:58 this, okay? Where you have the steps one
57:01 

57:01 and eight are done at the organization
57:03 

57:03 level, but for each project um and each
57:07 

57:07 appointment, steps two to seven are
57:09 

57:09 repeated.
57:11 

57:11 Right, I'm going to be a little bit uh
57:13 

57:13 controversial now um because in terms of
57:16 

57:16 where does BIM fit into information
57:18 

57:18 management and this is my own personal
57:21 

57:21 view but for me BIM is around the
57:24 

57:24 collaborative production of information
57:26 

57:26 using modern methods of production. All
57:29 

57:29 right. And from an information
57:30 

57:30 management process perspective, that is
57:33 

57:33 currently steps six and seven of the
57:36 

57:36 information management process. And
57:38 

57:38 everything that comes before that, of
57:41 

57:41 which there's 75% of the activities, is
57:43 

57:43 before you actually start producing
57:45 

57:45 information
57:46 

57:46 is around planning for how you
57:48 

57:48 understand the requirements for what
57:51 

57:51 information needs to be produced and
57:53 

57:53 planning for that production. Okay. So
57:56 

57:56 when we talk about the title of
57:58 

57:58 information management when using build
57:60 

57:60 information modeling this is what it
58:02 

58:02 means from a ISO 19650 perspective.
58:07 

58:07 Okay. So that is the information
58:09 

58:09 management process. Now I know you can't
58:12 

58:12 read it but what you can see is that
58:13 

58:13 each of those activities are colored
58:16 

58:16 slightly different and this relates to
58:18 

58:18 the party that is responsible for
58:20 

58:20 undertaking or has been assigned the
58:23 

58:23 responsibility for that particular
58:25 

58:25 activity. And so what we've done is
58:27 

58:27 we've introduced a concept of parties
58:29 

58:29 and teams which enables us a from a
58:32 

58:32 standard point of view to be able to do
58:34 

58:34 that assignment but also for um
58:37 

58:37 organizations to be able to identify
58:40 

58:40 where they sit within the uh information
58:43 

58:43 manager process. So we've got uh three
58:46 

58:46 different types of party and three
58:48 

58:48 different types of team. And this
58:50 

58:50 diagram was produced and is available in
58:53 

58:53 part two of ISO 19650 to try and help uh
58:56 

58:56 explain the relationship uh between the
58:59 

58:59 different parties and teams. And the
59:01 

59:01 reason why it's a hub and spoke model is
59:03 

59:03 is because it's it's we didn't really
59:05 

59:05 want it to look like a hierarchical type
59:08 

59:08 organagram. All right? But it is very
59:10 

59:10 much a hub and spoke model. And at the
59:13 

59:13 center of that at the hub is what we
59:15 

59:15 refer to as the appointing party. Now
59:19 

59:19 the appointing party is invariably the
59:21 

59:21 asset owner or the client or in the UK
59:24 

59:24 we often refer to them as the employer.
59:26 

59:26 There is only one appointing party.
59:29 

59:29 Okay. Um and so from a DOT perspective
59:33 

59:33 that would be the DOT. Okay. Would be
59:37 

59:37 that appointing party. And we'll look at
59:39 

59:39 what responsibilities they're assigned
59:41 

59:41 shortly.
59:42 

59:42 Now from a production point of view
59:44 

59:44 that's generally done by an appointed
59:47 

59:47 party. So a party is appointed to
59:49 

59:49 produce that information and as I said
59:51 

59:51 before that could be an internal party.
59:54 

59:54 So an internal design team, construction
59:56 

59:56 team, maintenance team, um whoever it is
59:59 

59:59 who are going to be producing that
60:00 

60:00 information
60:02 

60:02 would be appointed and one of those
60:05 

60:05 would have a direct relationship with
60:09 

60:09 the uh the appointing party which is the
60:12 

60:12 lead appointed party. Okay. Now, a lot
60:17 

60:17 of people get a little bit hung up on
60:19 

60:19 the terms of appointing appointed
60:22 

60:22 parties. Um, but as Roger says, what
60:25 

60:25 you're able to do is to map these to
60:28 

60:28 what you would refer to them as in your
60:31 

60:31 country. So, for example, in the
60:32 

60:32 national forward in the US, I would
60:34 

60:34 anticipate that appointing party would
60:37 

60:37 be owner. Okay? But from a an ISO 19650
60:42 

60:42 perspective, a lead appointed party is
60:44 

60:44 simply an appointed party which got a
60:45 

60:45 direct appointment with the appointing
60:46 

60:46 party. All right, so pretty
60:49 

60:49 straightforward. Um, but as I say, you
60:52 

60:52 should be able to map those terms in
60:54 

60:54 your national forward.
60:56 

60:56 Okay, so on to the teams. So what we've
60:58 

60:58 got is at the bottom level, we've got
61:00 

61:00 our task teams. Now a task team is
61:03 

61:03 simply a team that are being assigned a
61:05 

61:05 particular task. Um now that can be made
61:08 

61:08 up of one or more appointed parties. Um
61:12 

61:12 an appointed party can belong to one or
61:14 

61:14 more task teams. Okay. Um but it just
61:17 

61:17 groups those and these are the task
61:18 

61:18 teams are generally the team that are
61:20 

61:20 going to be producing the information.
61:23 

61:23 All of those points of parties and task
61:25 

61:25 teams with the leader appointed party is
61:28 

61:28 known as the delivery team. All right.
61:30 

61:30 So this is ultimately who are appointed
61:33 

61:33 to produce the information. Okay. So
61:35 

61:35 that might be your main contractor or
61:37 

61:37 lead designer uh whatever it might be
61:40 

61:40 and then any sort of subcontractors,
61:42 

61:42 specialist designers would be the
61:44 

61:44 appointed parties
61:46 

61:46 and then all of the delivery teams and
61:49 

61:49 the appointing party are referred to as
61:52 

61:52 the asset or project team. Okay. And
61:55 

61:55 again, this all links back to the
61:57 

61:57 clauses in the standard, but also when
61:59 

61:59 we're looking at the production workflow
62:02 

62:02 in terms of who can see which
62:05 

62:05 information in which in a in a given
62:07 

62:07 state. All right, I'm not going to cover
62:09 

62:09 that today, but just to highlight why
62:11 

62:11 we've got parties uh and teams
62:14 

62:14 just also to bring your to your
62:16 

62:16 attention. So the arrows between the the
62:19 

62:19 circles uh you can see they're
62:20 

62:20 birectional.
62:22 

62:22 What this is indicating is that the
62:24 

62:24 requirement for information is
62:25 

62:25 permeating from the hub from the
62:28 

62:28 appointing party from the asset owner
62:31 

62:31 through the lead appointiner parties to
62:34 

62:34 the appointed party. So their
62:35 

62:35 requirements for information. The
62:38 

62:38 appointed parties are then producing
62:39 

62:39 that information. It's then going back
62:42 

62:42 to the leader appointed party. They
62:44 

62:44 approve it. the lead appointed party
62:46 

62:46 authorizes it and then they deliver that
62:49 

62:49 back to the appointing party who then
62:51 

62:51 accepts it as a deliverable. Okay. And
62:56 

62:56 the arrows in between is showing the
62:58 

62:58 coordination of information between both
63:00 

63:00 the appointed parties but also the lead
63:03 

63:03 appointed parties from each delivery
63:05 

63:05 team. Okay. So when you put all that
63:08 

63:08 together and when we talk about the
63:10 

63:10 collaborative production of information
63:12 

63:12 as opposed to just the production of
63:14 

63:14 information which is generally siloed
63:16 

63:16 this is what we're referring to. Okay.
63:18 

63:18 So this is the diagram is sort of
63:20 

63:20 highlighting what we mean by the
63:22 

63:22 collaborative production of information
63:24 

63:24 and as far as I'm concerned is what how
63:27 

63:27 building information model modeling is
63:30 

63:30 defined.
63:33 

63:33 Okay. And when you look at the
63:34 

63:34 assignment, you can start across our
63:37 

63:37 three parties. We've got the appointing
63:39 

63:39 party, which is the asset owner or in
63:40 

63:40 this case the DOT. Uh the lead appointed
63:43 

63:43 parties and the appointed parties. Now
63:46 

63:46 if you look at the current assignment,
63:49 

63:49 um and based on the unified process that
63:51 

63:51 we've done already, the appointing party
63:54 

63:54 is assigned 26 activities. The lead
63:58 

63:58 appointed parties 18 and the appointed
64:00 

64:00 parties are six. Okay. So if you look at
64:04 

64:04 this as a percentage
64:06 

64:06 over 50%
64:08 

64:08 is with the asset owner. Okay. 50 over
64:12 

64:12 50% in this case would be with each of
64:15 

64:15 DOS
64:17 

64:17 and then that goes to 36 and only 12% of
64:19 

64:19 the activities. So when we're looking at
64:22 

64:22 the impact on the uh the industry at the
64:26 

64:26 sort of the the uh appointed party level
64:29 

64:29 where most of the industry sits in terms
64:31 

64:31 of themes then you know there's very
64:34 

64:34 little relatively that they need to be
64:37 

64:37 involved and there all those activities
64:38 

64:38 are the production activities of which
64:40 

64:40 they already do in terms of generating
64:43 

64:43 coordinating checking and reviewing and
64:46 

64:46 approving their information. So really
64:49 

64:49 just stuff that they already do. So the
64:51 

64:51 impact is is is is sort of minimal. The
64:54 

64:54 big impact okay for any of you who are
64:57 

64:57 part of a DOT uh currently sat there
64:60 

65:00 going what the help uh is probably going
65:03 

65:03 to be with you because as you can see
65:05 

65:05 from the process it's frontloaded. So
65:09 

65:09 the appointing party is responsible for
65:12 

65:12 all the activities in steps one and two.
65:15 

65:15 Okay. And that is about an
65:17 

65:17 organizational level setting the
65:19 

65:19 foundations setting the requirements the
65:21 

65:21 purposes for which information is being
65:23 

65:23 produced enabling the right commercial
65:26 

65:26 and collaborative environment for teams
65:27 

65:27 to produce information.
65:30 

65:30 This is so important from an information
65:31 

65:31 management perspective if we are to get
65:33 

65:33 that out those outcomes that we're
65:35 

65:35 looking for because all the outputs from
65:37 

65:37 those activities are needed as inputs by
65:41 

65:41 the delivery teams. Okay. And if they
65:43 

65:43 don't get them, if you just say we want
65:46 

65:46 BIM and we want ISO 19650 without
65:49 

65:49 providing these outputs, then the
65:52 

65:52 ability for the delivery teams to
65:54 

65:54 achieve those outcomes uh are are vastly
65:57 

65:57 reduced.
65:59 

65:59 Okay. So how is that actually what's
66:01 

66:01 that look like in practice? So this is
66:03 

66:03 one of the clauses from part two of ISO
66:06 

66:06 19650 which is one of the activities and
66:09 

66:09 you'll see it's written as a
66:10 

66:10 specification. So each clause is written
66:12 

66:12 as a shall. Uh so somebody shall do
66:15 

66:15 something. Now to give it a little bit
66:18 

66:18 of scalability to so we can it can be
66:21 

66:21 applied to complex or straightforward
66:24 

66:24 projects. Most of the clauses include a
66:26 

66:26 shall consider clause and provided
66:29 

66:29 you've considered the uh the list below
66:31 

66:31 it. And if it doesn't apply then you're
66:33 

66:33 still conforming with the standard
66:38 

66:38 at the very start. What you're looking
66:39 

66:39 to do is to look at that assignment. And
66:42 

66:42 if you're an organization that doesn't
66:43 

66:43 have the capability or the capacity to
66:45 

66:45 undertake the uh the activities that
66:48 

66:48 you've been assigned, then there is the
66:50 

66:50 ability to either employ a third party
66:53 

66:53 to undertake them on your behalf or you
66:55 

66:55 can discharge that responsibility to uh
66:59 

66:59 one of the appointed parties. All right.
67:01 

67:01 And there's a annex in annexa of part
67:03 

67:03 two there is uh a responsibility
67:05 

67:05 assignment matrix which can help you to
67:08 

67:08 do that.
67:09 

67:09 Okay, that's a very quick uh run through
67:12 

67:12 what the information management process
67:14 

67:14 looks like. So I'll I'll hand over now
67:16 

67:16 for uh if there's any questions on that
67:19 

67:19 particular topic.
67:25 

67:25 >> We do have a question online. Um um
67:29 

67:29 Rackley, can we let them ask it? Um
67:34 

67:34 >> so I saw Hanjen had his hand raised.
67:37 

67:37 Devon as well. Hun, should we start with
67:39 

67:39 you?
67:46 

67:46 >> Oh, okay. Well, we do we don't have a
67:50 

67:50 question.
67:51 

67:51 >> Deon has
67:52 

67:52 >> Oh, okay. Good.
67:55 

67:55 Devin, go ahead.
67:57 

67:57 >> Thank you. Uh, Paul Devin Por uh from uh
67:60 

68:00 Calr. I'm our BIM program uh director.
68:03 

68:03 Could you go back to your
68:06 

68:06 uh slide that showed the uh the the hub
68:09 

68:09 and spoke? I got a question to try
68:11 

68:11 better understand that.
68:14 

68:14 >> Yeah, sure. Let me just get the help.
68:17 

68:17 >> So when you were um I think at the you
68:19 

68:19 know because the terminology is
68:22 

68:22 different than what we are accustomed to
68:25 

68:25 appointing party. I kind of understand
68:26 

68:26 that that would you know applying it to
68:28 

68:28 a CALR concept that would be CLR as the
68:31 

68:31 owner the DOT
68:33 

68:33 >> uh C the appointed parties so those say
68:37 

68:37 it's during the design phase or a design
68:39 

68:39 product those would be our design
68:41 

68:41 engineer and their team and the other
68:42 

68:42 functional groups but that that be who
68:46 

68:46 would that the lead appointed party I
68:48 

68:48 mean would that be a project manager or
68:52 

68:52 would that be like a district or is it
68:55 

68:55 something completely different. I think
68:56 

68:56 I'm trying to understand the the
68:58 

68:58 correlation from A all the way down to
68:60 

68:60 C.
69:01 

69:01 >> Yeah. So, I guess um what we're trying
69:05 

69:05 to do is one of the challenges with the
69:07 

69:07 standard that we're we're trying to
69:08 

69:08 write a process that can be applied in
69:11 

69:11 every country for every type of asset
69:13 

69:13 for every type of procurement route. Um
69:15 

69:15 and so yeah, but so let me just maybe
69:17 

69:17 put it into context using the example
69:19 

69:19 that you've just just given. So yeah, so
69:22 

69:22 yeah, the appointing party very much
69:23 

69:23 would be Calran as that uh the asset
69:26 

69:26 owner. Um the way to think about if you
69:29 

69:29 look at it from a um a contractual point
69:31 

69:31 of view, uh if you have a designer um
69:34 

69:34 let's say they're multi-disiplinary uh
69:37 

69:37 design company, then whoever the you
69:41 

69:41 have a direct appointment with, so
69:43 

69:43 whoever your contractors wi with is the
69:47 

69:47 de facto lead appointed party.
69:51 

69:51 Let me let me sorry let me stop you
69:54 

69:54 there because maybe that's where the
69:55 

69:55 confusion is coming in for me. Uh
69:58 

69:58 outside of putting we're a design bid
70:01 

70:01 build primarily we do a most of our work
70:04 

70:04 inhouse outside of contracting out for
70:07 

70:07 the construction phase.
70:08 

70:08 >> Yeah.
70:09 

70:09 >> Thinking about it in like outside of
70:11 

70:11 construction and you're putting the
70:13 

70:13 contract out for bid. there's a lot of
70:15 

70:15 it that is just primarily internal and
70:18 

70:18 so be trying to understand it that way.
70:21 

70:21 >> Um because I love this concept and I
70:23 

70:23 want to try and take it back to my team
70:24 

70:24 and better relate it but I'm trying to
70:26 

70:26 think of it from a basically a wholly
70:29 

70:29 internal type of a process.
70:32 

70:32 >> Yeah, sure. So I think you know from an
70:34 

70:34 internal perspective so again generally
70:38 

70:38 if I I don't know if the the language
70:40 

70:40 travels but there would be some sort of
70:41 

70:41 uh work instruction internally. So if
70:44 

70:44 you've got a sort of a a design team, so
70:47 

70:47 let's say it was a it was a bridge that
70:49 

70:49 was needs to be designed then the you
70:52 

70:52 would put a work construction to the
70:54 

70:54 bridge team. Um so they would be the de
70:57 

70:57 facto leader point of party. Now within
71:00 

71:00 the bridge team you may have sort of
71:02 

71:02 specialist teams. They may also bring in
71:05 

71:05 other functions from other teams from
71:07 

71:07 across the organization
71:09 

71:09 uh to help with the overall but they're
71:12 

71:12 responsible as a leader point of party
71:15 

71:15 the the there is yeah so the over the
71:19 

71:19 the miss and ling or what might help is
71:20 

71:20 if you look at the responsibilities of
71:22 

71:22 the leader point of party and that is
71:24 

71:24 around uh the planning so looking at the
71:28 

71:28 proposed approach to how that
71:29 

71:29 information is going to be produced
71:31 

71:31 assessing the team's capability in
71:33 

71:33 capacity uh planning the the delivery uh
71:36 

71:36 and production of that information uh
71:39 

71:39 and then authorizing it before it goes
71:42 

71:42 back you know to I know it's all the
71:44 

71:44 same organization but there should also
71:46 

71:46 have some sort of client function within
71:48 

71:48 Calran as well who the sort of the
71:51 

71:51 commissioning that actual piece of work
71:54 

71:54 so the idea is is that just because it's
71:57 

71:57 an internal team a lot of the perception
71:59 

71:59 is well you know it's it's all in house
72:02 

72:02 so we need to do ISO 19 and 650 and
72:05 

72:05 that's why we've tried to use this
72:07 

72:07 generic language
72:09 

72:09 um to show that actually it's probably
72:11 

72:11 just as important if not more important
72:13 

72:13 that you undertake the activities within
72:16 

72:16 the process and like I say you can
72:19 

72:19 obviously from a national forward
72:21 

72:21 perspective as a US as a country you can
72:24 

72:24 map those three terms of the parties to
72:27 

72:27 what is local but there's nothing
72:29 

72:29 stopping you as an organization as well
72:31 

72:31 to say okay when this is internal this
72:33 

72:33 is you know these are all the different
72:35 

72:35 parties
72:36 

72:36 um the other thing I would add to that
72:38 

72:38 is again which a lot of people sort of
72:40 

72:40 get confused about was if let's just say
72:44 

72:44 um you were to calran engaged uh operam
72:49 

72:49 um to do to do a piece of work or to
72:51 

72:51 produce some information we would be
72:54 

72:54 both the uh and it was the appointed
72:57 

72:57 party but also the leader appointed
72:59 

72:59 party because there's only one party. So
73:02 

73:02 that means that I would have to do all
73:03 

73:03 the responsibilities of the lead
73:05 

73:05 appointed party and the appointed party.
73:08 

73:08 So they would just stack up. And that is
73:11 

73:11 example. So where you've got the on the
73:13 

73:13 the far left like towards 10:00 you've
73:16 

73:16 got A, B, and C. So that might be just
73:20 

73:20 one team that might be the bridge team
73:22 

73:22 in Calron.
73:24 

73:24 Okay. So it's we've tried to use a
73:27 

73:27 diagram to show you can just have one
73:29 

73:29 sort of you know team that could be the
73:32 

73:32 maintenance team who are going out and
73:34 

73:34 undertaking a piece of uh maintenance
73:36 

73:36 and then bringing back the data that's
73:38 

73:38 being updated. Um so yeah it's just
73:41 

73:41 enables us to assign the
73:43 

73:43 responsibilities for the activities.
73:45 

73:45 That's all we're trying to do here.
73:48 

73:48 >> Okay. So with that um framework and
73:52 

73:52 understanding so
73:54 

73:54 a the appointing party could be like the
73:57 

73:57 main DOT owner or it could be a portion
74:00 

74:00 of DOT it could be the bridge group it
74:03 

74:03 could be the design group and then from
74:05 

74:05 there
74:07 

74:07 you know it's whoever the it could be
74:10 

74:10 whoever the lead person is or the lead
74:12 

74:12 organization like if it's a contract
74:14 

74:14 going out and then
74:16 

74:16 >> is more the task doers I guess.
74:20 

74:20 >> Yeah. So I think you know in um in
74:23 

74:23 Transport for London and London
74:24 

74:24 Underground um they had uh sort of a
74:27 

74:27 client function.
74:28 

74:28 >> Yeah.
74:29 

74:29 >> Um and who would obviously look after
74:32 

74:32 look after the portfolio and they would
74:34 

74:34 sort of commission and finance the
74:36 

74:36 different projects. They also had a
74:38 

74:38 capital projects directorate and again I
74:40 

74:40 don't know if that translates but it's
74:42 

74:42 it's a that almost a an entity within
74:46 

74:46 the organization that's responsible for
74:48 

74:48 delivery of all capital works
74:50 

74:50 >> and then below that you would have the
74:53 

74:53 the the you know the bridge teams the
74:55 

74:55 rail teams the signal teams um and then
74:58 

74:58 so they would be the appointed parties
74:60 

74:60 the capital projects director would be
75:02 

75:02 the lead appointed party and then the
75:04 

75:04 sort of the um the capital team would or
75:08 

75:08 the finance team would be the act as the
75:10 

75:10 client who would do those requirements.
75:12 

75:12 Uh quite often as well from an
75:14 

75:14 organizational point of view, it would
75:15 

75:15 be the uh operations and maintenance
75:17 

75:17 team who would be providing those um
75:21 

75:21 requirements for information as well. So
75:23 

75:23 yeah, that's how it would be structured
75:25 

75:25 in in in London under the ground and
75:27 

75:27 hopefully that can uh you'll help you
75:29 

75:29 try and align that map onto Calrron as
75:32 

75:32 well.
75:34 

75:34 >> No, this is this is very helpful. Paul,
75:36 

75:36 I might reach out to you. I don't want
75:37 

75:37 to keep taking up time for the rest of
75:39 

75:39 >> Yeah, absolutely.
75:40 

75:40 >> I got a lot more questions.
75:42 

75:42 >> No problem.
75:45 

75:45 >> Okay, I'm just mindful of time, so I'm
75:46 

75:46 going to finish off my last bit. Um
75:48 

75:48 there'll be if you have got any
75:50 

75:50 questions uh then we can certainly cover
75:53 

75:53 those uh towards the end. Um I'll be
75:56 

75:56 looking to you Roger about time. Um
76:00 

76:00 okay. So just to finish off and final
76:03 

76:03 part is around implementation approaches
76:05 

76:05 and hopefully this is going to feed into
76:08 

76:08 uh some of the case studies that we're
76:09 

76:09 going to be listening to uh from
76:11 

76:11 Oklahoma and others uh later on. Um well
76:15 

76:15 what I wanted to do really is just to
76:17 

76:17 sort of look at why organizations like
76:20 

76:20 the DOS or even the on the delivery side
76:23 

76:23 whether you're the asset owner or a
76:25 

76:25 delivery team why organizations looking
76:28 

76:28 to adopt a unified approach to how
76:30 

76:30 information is managed and I think the
76:33 

76:33 first reason is because they want to and
76:37 

76:37 what we've seen over the last decade is
76:39 

76:39 a lot of sort of organizations saying
76:41 

76:41 you know well when we're told to do it
76:44 

76:44 then we'll then we'll look at doing it.
76:46 

76:46 Okay. Um but at the same time you find a
76:49 

76:49 lot of organizations who have been a bit
76:51 

76:51 more proactive a little bit more forward
76:53 

76:53 thinking realized the benefits of
76:56 

76:56 adopting a unified approach to how
76:58 

76:58 information is managed. And a lot of
76:59 

76:59 these tend to be a lot of the large
77:01 

77:01 multinational organizations or
77:02 

77:02 organizations that have a lot of
77:04 

77:04 different offices and recognize that
77:06 

77:06 there's several different ways of doing
77:08 

77:08 the same thing. Um so they see a lot of
77:11 

77:11 B business benefit regardless of whether
77:13 

77:13 they're told to uh unifying how they
77:16 

77:16 actually manage information within their
77:18 

77:18 organization.
77:21 

77:21 The second sort of group is the ones um
77:23 

77:23 where they need to okay and this is what
77:26 

77:26 we've seen around the uh the world is a
77:28 

77:28 lot of what we would people call BIM
77:31 

77:31 mandates or whatever you want to call
77:32 

77:32 them but certainly a lot of uh
77:35 

77:35 organizations and asset owners
77:37 

77:37 particularly are starting to to request
77:40 

77:40 that their delivery teams are able to
77:42 

77:42 manage information in accordance with
77:44 

77:44 ISO 19650. uh and if they're not able to
77:48 

77:48 then they are probably unlikely to
77:50 

77:50 pre-qualify.
77:51 

77:51 So on the supply side if they want to
77:54 

77:54 bid for that work then they need to be
77:57 

77:57 able to manage information uh in this
77:60 

77:60 way. Okay. And even on the client side
78:03 

78:03 what we all sort to see is uh at a
78:05 

78:05 government level the that requirement
78:08 

78:08 that mandates are being passed down to
78:11 

78:11 the government agencies. Okay. And I'm
78:14 

78:14 not 100% familiar with how that's
78:16 

78:16 structured um from uh the federal
78:19 

78:19 highways perspective to the individual
78:22 

78:22 DOS but it's it's sort of along as my
78:25 

78:25 understanding is along those lines. So
78:28 

78:28 even at the asset owner level there is a
78:30 

78:30 need that they're now starting uh to be
78:33 

78:33 uh asked to uh to adopt that approach.
78:37 

78:37 And then the final one is around that
78:38 

78:38 they have to. So again what we've seen
78:42 

78:42 in different parts of the world uh is
78:45 

78:45 almost legislation now coming into play.
78:49 

78:49 So first of all in Europe um there is a
78:52 

78:52 concept known as the open journal of the
78:54 

78:54 European Union. Um so there was actually
78:56 

78:56 a directive uh within uh around uh
78:60 

78:60 building information modeling um and to
79:04 

79:04 conform with the EU directives. And then
79:06 

79:06 more recently in the UK, uh it's
79:08 

79:08 actually become legislation following
79:10 

79:10 the Grimfell fire disaster, which is a
79:13 

79:13 um was a horrific accident and a a
79:17 

79:17 high-rise residential building where a
79:20 

79:20 lot of people lost their lives uh due to
79:23 

79:23 the the products uh and the construction
79:25 

79:25 methods that were used. So now that's
79:28 

79:28 been uh under the fire safety act uh any
79:30 

79:30 asset owners who own high-rise buildings
79:33 

79:33 over so many stories uh they legally
79:36 

79:36 have to uh um gather and maintain data
79:41 

79:41 about their assets. So what we're
79:44 

79:44 actually looking at, we've almost formed
79:45 

79:45 a sort of like perfect storm
79:48 

79:48 um around you know finally getting our
79:52 

79:52 industry which is still the least
79:54 

79:54 digitized industry uh on the planet to
79:57 

79:57 sort of you know hopefully seen as this
79:59 

79:59 catalyst to uh improve in the way in
80:02 

80:02 which we manage uh and produce
80:04 

80:04 information. Um but like I say we've
80:07 

80:07 still got this sort of thing. Um what we
80:10 

80:10 are still seeing around BIM and building
80:12 

80:12 information modeling is this this idea
80:14 

80:14 is you know are we doing it or are we
80:17 

80:17 not doing it and over the past decade or
80:19 

80:19 so we've seen organizations with you
80:22 

80:22 know setting targets for you know in
80:25 

80:25 five years time 50% of our projects will
80:28 

80:28 be will be BIM whatever that may be. Um,
80:32 

80:32 and so, you know, by making it a thing,
80:35 

80:35 it's something that, you know, you're
80:36 

80:36 either doing or you're not. And so, what
80:40 

80:40 we're going to do hopefully very quickly
80:42 

80:42 is just try and give you an idea of what
80:44 

80:44 we've seen over the past uh decade or so
80:46 

80:46 around how organizations uh approach
80:49 

80:49 this. And so I'm going to use a fairly
80:51 

80:51 basic model around people, process and
80:54 

80:54 technology, but I'm also going to
80:56 

80:56 include a leadership component as well
80:59 

80:59 as an implementation component. Now a
81:03 

81:03 lot of organizations what tends to
81:05 

81:05 happen is that there will be some form
81:07 

81:07 of external demands. So on the supply
81:10 

81:10 side that could come from the client
81:12 

81:12 from the client, it could come from
81:14 

81:14 government levels above you. It could
81:17 

81:17 come from investors. It could come from
81:19 

81:19 shareholders.
81:21 

81:21 Um, wherever it comes from, there's
81:22 

81:22 these uh external demands are being
81:25 

81:25 placed on organizations. So the
81:27 

81:27 leadership team then great okay let's do
81:31 

81:31 BIM. All right. Uh and then that is then
81:34 

81:34 fed down into the organization.
81:38 

81:38 Now because the association of BIM with
81:40 

81:40 this the software and the technology
81:44 

81:44 um the only thing that really gets any
81:47 

81:47 airtime is the business cases for the
81:49 

81:49 enablement technologies of which there
81:51 

81:51 are many. Um so the organization will
81:54 

81:54 tend to invest a significant amount of
81:56 

81:56 money in those enabled technologies.
81:59 

81:59 From a process point of view they may
82:02 

82:02 document some uh standards some rules to
82:04 

82:04 how that information should be produced.
82:06 

82:06 maybe a naming convention um maybe some
82:09 

82:09 properties to be associated maybe a
82:12 

82:12 workflow. Okay, we're not a huge amount
82:15 

82:15 um around what is actually documented
82:18 

82:18 and then from a people point of view um
82:21 

82:21 there's no real thought in terms of
82:23 

82:23 training. Maybe the software providers
82:26 

82:26 provide some uh training on their
82:28 

82:28 product but it's not really in context
82:30 

82:30 and nor does the organization give the
82:32 

82:32 people any time to actually undertake
82:35 

82:35 that training uh because the expectation
82:37 

82:37 is is that you either already know it uh
82:40 

82:40 or you should know it. So it's uh time
82:43 

82:43 is money. So it's straight on to the
82:44 

82:44 implementation
82:46 

82:46 and what tends to happen is that all
82:48 

82:48 that does is you know results in delays
82:52 

82:52 conflict and unbudgeted cost. All right
82:56 

82:56 because of the the new ways of working
82:59 

82:59 are being introduced without the actual
83:01 

83:01 proper uh implementation approach.
83:05 

83:05 So this doesn't go down very well. All
83:08 

83:08 right, because obviously the leadership
83:09 

83:09 team have um decided to do BIM. They've
83:13 

83:13 invested heavily and they're expecting
83:15 

83:15 all the promises that the software
83:17 

83:17 vendors offer. You know, 50% quicker,
83:20 

83:20 20% cheaper, you know, quality through
83:24 

83:24 the roof. And the reality of it is
83:27 

83:27 generally the opposite.
83:29 

83:29 So the general reaction at that point
83:32 

83:32 is, okay, let's not do BIM. All right?
83:35 

83:35 Because now obviously it's all BIM's
83:37 

83:37 fault. nothing to do with the leadership
83:39 

83:39 team. Um, but what they're still left
83:42 

83:42 with this very expensive set of enabling
83:45 

83:45 technologies. Um, they're still left
83:48 

83:48 with all the delays, conflicts, and cost
83:50 

83:50 around their ongoing projects. And those
83:53 

83:53 external demands, well, they're not
83:55 

83:55 going away. Okay? If anything, they're
83:58 

83:58 increasing.
83:59 

83:59 So, the question really is, is there a
84:02 

84:02 better way?
84:04 

84:04 Now I'm not suggesting that this is the
84:07 

84:07 the the the only way but I'm suggesting
84:09 

84:09 that this is a way that we would sort of
84:10 

84:10 certainly advocate. Now what we're
84:12 

84:12 seeing with organizations who are
84:14 

84:14 leading in this field is again they're
84:16 

84:16 not waiting for those external demands.
84:19 

84:19 They're looking at their own internal
84:21 

84:21 businesses and their organizations and
84:23 

84:23 setting quite optimistic uh and
84:25 

84:25 innovative business goals around where
84:27 

84:27 they see themselves as an organization.
84:32 

84:32 Once those goals have been set, the
84:34 

84:34 leadership team then are looking to
84:36 

84:36 develop uh digital strategies. I'm just
84:38 

84:38 using digital uh generally u but they're
84:41 

84:41 putting business strategies in place
84:43 

84:43 over the short, medium, and long term.
84:46 

84:46 They're developing plans to actually
84:48 

84:48 implement those strategies strategies
84:50 

84:50 that are funded and resourced, okay, as
84:53 

84:53 opposed to just, you know, putting a
84:55 

84:55 plan out there and expecting it to
84:57 

84:57 magically happen. And then the policies
84:59 

84:59 that organizations need to be able to
85:02 

85:02 direct teams to be able to implement
85:04 

85:04 that across.
85:06 

85:06 And probably the most important thing at
85:08 

85:08 this level is that executive sponsor. I
85:12 

85:12 have never in my experience seen uh a
85:15 

85:15 transformational project like this
85:17 

85:17 succeed without an executive sponsor.
85:21 

85:21 Okay. Now, you really need somebody at
85:24 

85:24 that level to not only just champion the
85:28 

85:28 uh the the project, but to be
85:30 

85:30 accountable for it. All right? And to
85:32 

85:32 demonstrate the right leadership
85:34 

85:34 behaviors throughout that organization.
85:37 

85:37 Okay? So, strategies, plans, policies,
85:40 

85:40 and most importantly, that project
85:42 

85:42 sponsor. Once you've got that, the next
85:45 

85:45 step is to look at the people in the
85:48 

85:48 organization. And what you're trying to
85:49 

85:49 do is to identify those individuals who
85:52 

85:52 have got a really good understanding of
85:54 

85:54 how that business operates as well as
85:57 

85:57 how the the industry standards for how
86:00 

86:00 information uh is to be managed. Now, if
86:04 

86:04 you can't find people with both, go for
86:06 

86:06 the people who understand the business
86:08 

86:08 because the teaching people the
86:10 

86:10 information management piece is
86:12 

86:12 relatively straightforward.
86:14 

86:14 Okay? But they need to have both parts.
86:17 

86:17 And this is why bringing in consultants
86:18 

86:18 never works because yes, they'll know
86:21 

86:21 everything about information management,
86:23 

86:23 but they won't understand your business.
86:25 

86:25 Okay? So, they're almost blind when
86:28 

86:28 they're providing their advice and it's
86:29 

86:29 not necessarily their fault. All right?
86:32 

86:32 So, knowledge of both the business and
86:35 

86:35 the uh information management process.
86:38 

86:38 What they can then do is get them to
86:40 

86:40 look at the different processes and that
86:42 

86:42 exist within the business. get the best
86:44 

86:44 of the best and then get them to align
86:46 

86:46 it to the industry standards. All right?
86:49 

86:49 So you end up with a set of business
86:51 

86:51 processes that reflect how the
86:53 

86:53 organization works but is also aligned
86:56 

86:56 with those industry standards namely ISO
86:58 

86:58 19650.
87:01 

87:01 From that you can then look at how to
87:04 

87:04 that process could be enabled by the
87:07 

87:07 different technology. Okay. And there's
87:10 

87:10 so many different options around there.
87:12 

87:12 But the most important thing is
87:13 

87:13 understanding what your functional and
87:15 

87:15 non-functional requirements are for each
87:18 

87:18 activity and those technologies.
87:20 

87:20 Functional requirements are simply what
87:22 

87:22 you want it to do. So you want it to be
87:24 

87:24 able to, you know, review. I want to be
87:26 

87:26 able to add comments. I want to be able
87:27 

87:27 to share it. All right, that's your
87:29 

87:29 functional requirements. But
87:30 

87:30 nonfunctional requirements are how you
87:33 

87:33 want it to do it. So that might be
87:34 

87:34 around it being available 24/7. It might
87:38 

87:38 be you want it supported. They might
87:39 

87:39 want it backed up. All right. So that's
87:41 

87:41 the difference between your functional
87:43 

87:43 and non-functional requirements. Once
87:45 

87:45 you have those, you're then able to do
87:47 

87:47 an assessment of your existing
87:49 

87:49 technologies because I can almost
87:50 

87:50 guarantee you'll probably have most of
87:52 

87:52 this already to see what is going to be
87:55 

87:55 your optimal solution. And if there are
87:58 

87:58 any gaps particularly if there's any
88:00 

88:00 must uh must have requirements then you
88:03 

88:03 can you can go out to market with a
88:06 

88:06 clear set of functional and functional
88:07 

88:07 requirements to get the enable
88:09 

88:09 technologies that you need. Once you've
88:12 

88:12 got that um the next step is to then
88:15 

88:15 start looking and documenting the
88:18 

88:18 standards, methods and procedures for
88:20 

88:20 each activity within the business
88:22 

88:22 process. So there will be standards to
88:25 

88:25 set out the rules for how information is
88:27 

88:27 be produced and each activity will have
88:29 

88:29 its own probably more than one method.
88:31 

88:31 So if you look at information review,
88:35 

88:35 one method might be to print it and get
88:38 

88:38 your red pen out, scan it back in.
88:40 

88:40 Another method might be to immerse
88:42 

88:42 yourself in an entire virtual reality um
88:45 

88:45 sort of cave type sort of thing. both
88:47 

88:47 valid methods of undertaking the same
88:49 

88:49 activity. But depending on the project,
88:52 

88:52 depending on the complexity, depends on
88:54 

88:54 the capability of the team, depends on
88:56 

88:56 which method you might adopt when you
88:58 

88:58 implement it. Each of those methods need
89:01 

89:01 a clear docu uh pro procedure to be
89:03 

89:03 documented. So that's all the steps that
89:06 

89:06 people need to take in order to
89:08 

89:08 implement that chosen method.
89:12 

89:12 Okay. Once you're at that point, it's
89:14 

89:14 now back to the people. All right. So
89:16 

89:16 you need to look at educating everybody
89:18 

89:18 on those standards, methods and
89:20 

89:20 procedures and training them and giving
89:22 

89:22 them the skills that they need to be
89:23 

89:23 able to use the enabled technologies.
89:26 

89:26 And this has become even more important
89:29 

89:29 with the advent of AI. Okay? So, if
89:31 

89:31 you're it's all well and good saying
89:34 

89:34 we're going to use AI and we're um but
89:36 

89:36 if you don't actually educate and train
89:38 

89:38 people with the skills that they need to
89:39 

89:39 do it, then you're actually introducing
89:42 

89:42 probably more risk uh than you would you
89:44 

89:44 anticipated.
89:46 

89:46 Okay, now you're in a good shape. Now
89:49 

89:49 you you're able to then um assign those
89:52 

89:52 people to projects to look at
89:55 

89:55 implementing the new way of working.
89:57 

89:57 ideally on some sort of project, pilot
89:60 

89:60 projects, ones that you've got the best
90:02 

90:02 chance of succeeding, but the chances of
90:04 

90:04 you getting it right first time are very
90:06 

90:06 slim. All right? And so this is why you
90:09 

90:09 go through those pilots, you take the
90:11 

90:11 learning from it, and you identify what
90:13 

90:13 that best practice is. And the key to
90:16 

90:16 all of this and the key to continuous
90:18 

90:18 improvement is that that knowledge needs
90:21 

90:21 to come back in from the projects to
90:24 

90:24 those individuals who can then update
90:27 

90:27 and maintain and manage those business
90:29 

90:29 processes and then we go around the
90:32 

90:32 cycle. All right. And that's what we
90:33 

90:33 mean by uh continuous improvement.
90:37 

90:37 Okay. So preempting one of the questions
90:40 

90:40 which you'll probably get asked is
90:42 

90:42 generally how much is all that going to
90:44 

90:44 cost Paul and how long will that take?
90:46 

90:46 Now obviously there's a number of
90:48 

90:48 different factors to to answering that
90:50 

90:50 question. Um you know largely the
90:54 

90:54 starting point you know where are you um
90:57 

90:57 already uh the size your organization
90:59 

90:59 the complexity of the assets that you
91:01 

91:01 that you're in your portfolio a whole
91:03 

91:03 range of of different factors. The best
91:06 

91:06 advice that I give organizations is that
91:09 

91:09 generally most of the money is funneled
91:11 

91:11 towards the technology. Okay. And my
91:15 

91:15 advice is whatever you're spending on
91:17 

91:17 technology is that you equal that both
91:21 

91:21 in terms of time and cost across the
91:24 

91:24 three. All right? So think about how
91:27 

91:27 much what your IT budget is. You need
91:29 

91:29 the same for process, documenting and
91:32 

91:32 mapping, optimizing all your business
91:34 

91:34 processes and investing in the people,
91:38 

91:38 educating them on what those processes
91:39 

91:39 are and training them and giving the
91:42 

91:42 skills needed to maximize the return on
91:45 

91:45 that technology.
91:47 

91:47 Okay, with that that brings me to a
91:51 

91:51 close. So, I don't know how we're doing
91:53 

91:53 for time, Roger. Uh, but I'm happy to uh
91:56 

91:56 to take any questions now or we can
91:58 

91:58 leave it till uh till later on.
92:00 

92:00 >> We're a little behind, Paul, but we can
92:03 

92:03 take if there's any question for you and
92:05 

92:05 then we'll we will have some discussion
92:08 

92:08 later. I think you gave, you know, we
92:10 

92:10 wanted to get something in there that
92:12 

92:12 talked about implementation and um you
92:15 

92:15 gave us a nice simple formula. Um that
92:18 

92:18 people like that um spend the same
92:21 

92:21 amount on technology on people and
92:23 

92:23 process. Uh I'd like to see that metric
92:27 

92:27 how it plays out. But good one. Um so I
92:32 

92:32 don't do we have any specific questions
92:35 

92:35 for Paul? and then we'll also come back
92:37 

92:37 and have some discussion later. This
92:40 

92:40 kind of helped set up for the two case
92:42 

92:42 studies we're going to have from Arizona
92:44 

92:44 and Oklahoma um and to get their
92:47 

92:47 perspective on what they're doing both
92:49 

92:49 around the standard and implementation.
92:52 

92:52 So, it was a really good setup, Paul.
92:59 

92:59 Um, and while you're thinking, if
93:01 

93:01 there's a question, what we're going to
93:02 

93:02 go to next was to kind of picking up on
93:05 

93:05 this on ISO 19650
93:07 

93:07 and how to use it. Uh, what's going on
93:11 

93:11 here in the US already with ISO 19650,
93:14 

93:14 not so much from who's using it. We'll
93:17 

93:17 hear some of that from our case studies.
93:19 

93:19 But on the process side, um how does it
93:23 

93:23 fit in with our other national standards
93:24 

93:24 and what are we trying to do to operate
93:28 

93:28 in the US like other countries do around
93:31 

93:31 the world to uh uh uh integrate with um
93:36 

93:36 be involved in the ISO process so we can
93:40 

93:40 have some input into the changes and
93:44 

93:44 updates and everything. Um, so that'll
93:47 

93:47 come next, but any is any we don't have
93:49 

93:49 any questions online, do we?
93:53 

93:53 >> Well, uh, maybe we'll you're gonna stay
93:55 

93:55 with us, right, Paul?
93:57 

93:57 >> Um, yeah, I'll, um, yeah, I'll I'll
93:60 

93:60 probably turn the camera off, but if
94:01 

94:01 there's anything that you, uh, want me
94:03 

94:03 to contribute to, then feel free to give
94:04 

94:04 me a shout.
94:06 

94:06 >> Yeah. Okay. Um, well, thank you very
94:08 

94:08 much for sharing all that, uh,
94:10 

94:10 incredible information that you've your
94:13 

94:13 from your experiences. So appreciate
94:15 

94:15 that. Thank you.
94:21 

94:21 >> Thanks everybody.
94:22 

94:22 >> Give us a good foundation for going
94:24 

94:24 forward um with this. So okay. Um um
94:28 

94:28 well we'll I'm I'm sure there'll be uh
94:31 

94:31 I'm sure you all have questions. It's
94:33 

94:33 just trying to formulate them. Um but uh
94:36 

94:36 when we'll share these slides too
94:38 

94:38 because I think some of it is a is takes
94:40 

94:40 a little processing to uh figure out. uh
94:44 

94:44 mental processing. Okay. So, um the next
94:48 

94:48 thing we wanted to talk about, I'm
94:50 

94:50 wanted to uh introduce
94:53 

94:53 uh my colleague from the National
94:55 

94:55 Institute of Building Sciences, Jay
94:56 

94:56 Klene, and ask him to share a little bit
94:60 

94:60 about what uh NIBS is doing to uh
95:05 

95:05 support the use of ISO standards here in
95:08 

95:08 the US uh from a from a procedural
95:10 

95:10 standpoint. Uh and Jay's going to give a
95:13 

95:13 little perspective on the idea of of
95:15 

95:15 that, what NIBs is doing and what we're
95:18 

95:18 doing in particular with information
95:20 

95:20 management process standards um of which
95:24 

95:24 there's a few already out there in use
95:27 

95:27 here in the US in particular the
95:29 

95:29 national BIM standard. So we'll go over
95:31 

95:31 that a little bit and that'll give some
95:33 

95:33 more context I think to what we're going
95:35 

95:35 to talk about later. Uh so Jay, are you
95:39 

95:39 out there? You're online. There you are.
95:42 

95:42 >> Yes. Can you hear me? Okay.
95:44 

95:44 >> Um and I apologize for not introducing
95:46 

95:46 Jay earlier when we had the other
95:48 

95:48 speakers. U but um here he is now coming
95:53 

95:53 to us from uh Pennsylvania
95:56 

95:56 today.
95:56 

95:56 >> Yes.
95:57 

95:57 >> Yeah,
95:58 

95:58 >> that's right.
95:58 

95:58 >> Nibs is in Washington DC. But um well,
96:01 

96:01 you've got a few slides Jay, right? to
96:03 

96:03 give a little back quick background on
96:05 

96:05 nibs and then put this in context with
96:08 

96:08 that slide of different standards and
96:10 

96:10 types that I used earlier and then we
96:13 

96:13 can um share a few things about what's
96:16 

96:16 going on with ISO standards here in the
96:19 

96:19 US.
96:20 

96:20 >> Yeah.
96:22 

96:22 Well, I guess you all know Roger, so um
96:26 

96:26 I don't know if we need to do Roger's
96:28 

96:28 intro, but he's going to support here
96:30 

96:30 and I think maybe pitch in on topics.
96:33 

96:33 Just jump in as you see necessary.
96:36 

96:36 Roger. Um for those who don't know me,
96:39 

96:39 my name is Jake Klein. I'm our program
96:40 

96:40 director here at NIBS for uh digital
96:43 

96:43 technology. Um my background is
96:46 

96:46 electrical engineer turned uh technology
96:48 

96:48 enabler, I guess you could say. And my
96:51 

96:51 role here at NIBS is to lead our
96:53 

96:53 department, the digital techn technology
96:55 

96:55 group of which um Rackley is is on and
96:58 

96:58 Roger also supports um to facilitate and
97:01 

97:01 inject energy into adopting the latest
97:04 

97:04 digital technology across our built
97:06 

97:06 environment in the US. So facilitating
97:09 

97:09 this uh stakeholder group is actually
97:11 

97:11 one manifestation of that through one
97:14 

97:14 specific focus project and effort. Uh so
97:18 

97:18 through here we'll explain a little bit
97:20 

97:20 more about how NIBS does that other ways
97:22 

97:22 that you can get involved to shape and
97:24 

97:24 lead US adoption of information
97:26 

97:26 management and technology and how you
97:29 

97:29 can take advantage of what NIBS is doing
97:32 

97:32 in this area. We'll give a few points of
97:36 

97:36 opportunity to plug in throughout the
97:38 

97:38 the session. Um but we're really going
97:40 

97:40 to focus on how how is NIBS and what are
97:43 

97:43 our goals around the use of advan
97:45 

97:45 advancing the use of information
97:48 

97:48 management standards in the US
97:49 

97:49 particularly through 19650 and NBIMS.
97:56 

97:56 So, at NIBS, um I'm sure maybe you've
97:59 

97:59 heard a little bit of this from Roger,
98:01 

98:01 but I think it's worth repeating that we
98:04 

98:04 think innovation accelerates when we can
98:06 

98:06 get government, academia,
98:09 

98:09 industry, and the the general public to
98:12 

98:12 align to build smarter together. So,
98:15 

98:15 this innovation cycle is how we try to
98:18 

98:18 bring that uh to reality. So we help
98:22 

98:22 turn studies and research in building
98:24 

98:24 sciences um into application through
98:28 

98:28 projects like this one. Uh we also do
98:30 

98:30 that through leading standards practice
98:33 

98:33 bodies publishing open and nationally
98:35 

98:35 recognized standards guidelines and
98:37 

98:37 target targeted recommendations to
98:40 

98:40 government and industry such as uh
98:43 

98:43 representation in front of the GAO on
98:45 

98:45 housing affordability which is something
98:47 

98:47 we did a few weeks ago. So um NIBs tries
98:51 

98:51 to to step into all these um areas to be
98:55 

98:55 a connector through projects, standard
98:58 

98:58 bodies and stakeholders
99:01 

99:01 uh distribution to stakeholders in the
99:03 

99:03 industry and policy makers. So we think
99:06 

99:06 without that our progress is a little
99:08 

99:08 bit slower. So this is sort of like our
99:11 

99:11 mission and where NIB sits in the center
99:13 

99:13 of that. So the idea would be for us to
99:16 

99:16 take things like we're learning here and
99:18 

99:18 elevate those to national standards and
99:21 

99:21 even international standards and
99:23 

99:23 facilitate that flow of adoption.
99:29 

99:29 So how do we apply that that role and
99:31 

99:31 that mission to digital delivery in the
99:34 

99:34 US and how are we doing that right now?
99:36 

99:36 Uh I like to characterize it in three
99:38 

99:38 different ways. Um one is through
99:41 

99:41 international standards. So elevating
99:43 

99:43 things to that level. Um and taking
99:46 

99:46 advantage of and integrating with the
99:48 

99:48 international standards development
99:50 

99:50 world. Um the second is national
99:53 

99:53 standards. Um so you'll see some here.
99:56 

99:56 There's a list of those. Um and we'll
99:59 

99:59 talk about these goals in a second, but
100:01 

100:01 national standards. And then the third
100:03 

100:03 is through actual project support and
100:05 

100:05 implementation which this project that
100:08 

100:08 we're all in the room for today or
100:10 

100:10 virtually in the room for is u an
100:13 

100:13 example of that. So these are our three
100:16 

100:16 sort of focus areas and goals. So we
100:21 

100:21 have taken on leadership of um first and
100:25 

100:25 foremost at the international level uh
100:28 

100:28 the technical committee 59 subcommittee
100:31 

100:31 13 technical advisory group. Um so this
100:34 

100:34 is the US representation to that group
100:38 

100:38 and that group um advises on and votes
100:41 

100:41 on changes to a collection of
100:44 

100:44 international standards ISO 19650 being
100:47 

100:47 one of them. And I'll show you more of
100:49 

100:49 what those are in the next slide. But um
100:52 

100:52 we are have taken over in collaboration
100:56 

100:56 with Ashray the leadership of that group
100:59 

100:59 and um are working actually today a set
101:02 

101:02 of emails will go out um to communicate
101:05 

101:05 with those who are interested in being a
101:07 

101:07 part of that um and those who are were
101:10 

101:10 past interested. So, we're in a little
101:12 

101:12 bit of a transition right now, but um we
101:16 

101:16 are actively like shifting towards that.
101:20 

101:20 It was administered by Ashray up until
101:22 

101:22 this point.
101:24 

101:24 So, um at the end, we'll have a QR code.
101:27 

101:27 If you are not already involved or
101:30 

101:30 interested or expressed your interest,
101:31 

101:31 you'll have a chance to do that at the
101:33 

101:33 end. Um and we'll loop you into those
101:35 

101:35 communications shortly. The first task
101:38 

101:38 of that group, we talked about uh a
101:41 

101:41 forward and an annex being an
101:43 

101:43 opportunity to connect ISO standards to
101:47 

101:47 national standards or national practice
101:49 

101:49 and that is actually drafted already. So
101:52 

101:52 we'll talk a little bit about that in a
101:53 

101:53 second, but that'll basically be the
101:55 

101:55 first item on the agenda is to uh
101:58 

101:58 publish that through the tag.
102:01 

102:01 So that's I think what we're going to
102:03 

102:03 focus on most today to try to connect
102:06 

102:06 that thread. Um and I'll help us get
102:08 

102:08 back on schedule here. But you know I
102:11 

102:11 think the other point and so we'll dive
102:13 

102:13 deeper on that next but just want to
102:15 

102:15 reiterate the points that you know we're
102:18 

102:18 connecting international, national and
102:20 

102:20 project level uh adoption together
102:23 

102:23 through a series of goals that you see
102:25 

102:25 here. Before I move on, Roger, anything
102:28 

102:28 that you wanted to add here? Mhm.
102:31 

102:31 >> Thanks, Jay. I think that's that's a
102:33 

102:33 good overview, quick overview.
102:35 

102:35 Obviously, there's a lot you can dig
102:36 

102:36 into with the different standards that
102:38 

102:38 we're working on, but uh you know, that
102:40 

102:40 dynamic of um international and national
102:44 

102:44 and how to also tie together um uh
102:47 

102:47 organizational standards and efforts
102:49 

102:49 through working at the project level.
102:54 

102:54 >> Great. Okay.
102:56 

102:56 And we can come back to any of these
102:58 

102:58 slides at the end that anyone would like
102:60 

102:60 as we ask questions. So the these are
103:02 

103:02 all the standards covered by this
103:05 

103:05 technical advisory group that we're um
103:07 

103:07 transitioning into leadership of. I
103:10 

103:10 marked a few that you might know of
103:12 

103:12 already um or very familiar with. In the
103:16 

103:16 top right is 19650, which we spent a
103:19 

103:19 fair amount of time today on. Thank you,
103:21 

103:21 Paul. Um but these other ones are things
103:24 

103:24 like level of information need IFC. Um
103:29 

103:29 there's some GIS interoperability work
103:31 

103:31 here. So many of you might be familiar
103:34 

103:34 with those in sort of a tangential way
103:37 

103:37 but this uh body of standards is all uh
103:42 

103:42 updated on and managed through this at
103:46 

103:46 the international level um this
103:48 

103:48 technical committee. So um this tag also
103:52 

103:52 has of course the vote and influence on
103:54 

103:54 all of these.
103:58 

103:58 >> Jay I might add the this is you know in
104:01 

104:01 the ISO parliament this is the US mirror
104:04 

104:04 committee. Each country has a mirror
104:06 

104:06 committee through its national standards
104:08 

104:08 body. Ours is through anie American
104:11 

104:11 national standards institute. They're
104:13 

104:13 the US uh representative to ISO and they
104:18 

104:18 award these technical advisory group uh
104:21 

104:21 leadership positions to interested
104:23 

104:23 parties. Ashray has held the one for
104:26 

104:26 this tag from technical committee 59
104:29 

104:29 subcommittee 13 which has really every
104:32 

104:32 standard that we're using for
104:35 

104:35 information management and exchange here
104:38 

104:38 in the US and I think we have we haven't
104:42 

104:42 probably put the level of effort and
104:44 

104:44 involvement into participation in this
104:48 

104:48 tag so that we have a voice in the
104:51 

104:51 updating of these standards and the
104:53 

104:53 management agement of them. So, I we are
104:55 

104:55 hoping that we can get this rebuilt.
104:58 

104:58 It's been out there for a while. It was
104:59 

104:59 going more on the building side with
105:02 

105:02 people, but the infrastructure world
105:04 

105:04 hasn't gotten quite as ga engaged in it,
105:06 

105:06 and we're hoping to foster that
105:08 

105:08 engagement. Um, sorry, J, maybe you were
105:11 

105:11 going to say that, but I was great.
105:13 

105:13 >> Jump in to just give that perspective on
105:15 

105:15 where this fits in the and I think the
105:18 

105:18 the importance of it to us in this
105:20 

105:20 community.
105:24 

105:24 Great.
105:27 

105:27 >> So as we mentioned um forward and annex
105:29 

105:29 is the main way to connect ISO
105:34 

105:34 international standards to country or
105:36 

105:36 agency practice. Um we've drafted that
105:40 

105:40 forward and annex that was done here
105:42 

105:42 with an analysis an alignment analysis
105:44 

105:44 done uh in partnership with Penn State
105:47 

105:47 University. Uh happens to be my alma mo.
105:50 

105:50 Um so proud of that and so the question
105:53 

105:53 is how do we guide and provide support
105:56 

105:56 to our US stakeholders on how to execute
105:58 

105:58 on 19650 that's what this is hoping to
106:02 

106:02 resolve um so with that draft the idea
106:05 

106:05 would be to put that forward to our tag
106:08 

106:08 um vote on it review comment etc but
106:12 

106:12 then get that adopted and published for
106:14 

106:14 US uh use.
106:22 

106:22 So coming back to this um I just want to
106:25 

106:25 sort of connect the dots a little bit.
106:27 

106:27 So on the left is international
106:28 

106:28 standards. We talked about how we're
106:30 

106:30 doing that. In the middle is national.
106:32 

106:32 That's things like NBIMS which includes
106:35 

106:35 um some information exchange standards
106:37 

106:37 but is mostly focused on information
106:40 

106:40 management standards. Um, we have the
106:43 

106:43 annex there plugged in at the top just
106:46 

106:46 for for reference for now, but that
106:48 

106:48 would be considered a national standard
106:51 

106:51 or a national document. And then on the
106:53 

106:53 right is the program and project or or
106:56 

106:56 agency specific owner specific
106:58 

106:58 requirements. I think you've seen this a
106:60 

107:00 few times with Roger. So, focusing in on
107:03 

107:03 this area what we've been talking about
107:06 

107:06 here. And at the risk of oversimplifying
107:09 

107:09 it, I wanted to put this up here too.
107:12 

107:12 um as a a potential framework for
107:15 

107:15 thinking about these. Um what Paul
107:18 

107:18 talked a lot about was what should be
107:21 

107:21 done and why and some of who should be
107:24 

107:24 doing that in terms of information
107:26 

107:26 management. The national level brings
107:28 

107:28 more detail to the who and talks more
107:31 

107:31 about frameworks around when you know
107:34 

107:34 using national nationally recognized
107:36 

107:36 terminology such as 35% 65% design. So
107:40 

107:40 it creates an opportunity to to create
107:42 

107:42 that language that's familiar to uh the
107:45 

107:45 US on project phases um stakeholder
107:50 

107:50 terminology like um project manager was
107:53 

107:53 brought up um by Devon. So the national
107:56 

107:56 level gives opportunity to create more
107:59 

107:59 specificity and a stronger framework on
108:01 

108:01 how to actually execute within the
108:04 

108:04 context of that 19650 framework. And
108:07 

108:07 then of course the program and project
108:09 

108:09 level brings the project context to it,
108:11 

108:11 puts plugs names into those roles, plugs
108:14 

108:14 timelines in, schedules etc.
108:18 

108:18 So the goal of the annex would be to
108:20 

108:20 plug together 19650 and the national
108:24 

108:24 standard and then the goal would be from
108:27 

108:27 there is to take those and plug those
108:29 

108:29 into program and projects.
108:36 

108:36 So this is our last make one small point
108:39 

108:39 there. But for example, the national BIM
108:41 

108:41 standard has a very prescriptive way to
108:44 

108:44 develop a BIM execution plan that tells
108:48 

108:48 how we do things here in the US and and
108:51 

108:51 we've prepared it like it has a model
108:54 

108:54 element table in it. How should you
108:55 

108:55 organize that? How do you use a model
108:57 

108:57 element table? How do you use LOD in the
109:00 

109:00 context of a model element table? Those
109:03 

109:03 kinds of things are all very clearly
109:05 

109:05 defined in the BIM execution plan module
109:08 

109:08 of the national BIM standard for
109:09 

109:09 instance and something I think that has
109:12 

109:12 some real application and potential use
109:15 

109:15 in uh infrastructure. It's pretty widely
109:18 

109:18 used in the buildings sector. So
109:20 

109:20 something we've we can work on.
109:25 

109:25 >> Yeah. And that sort of little plug there
109:27 

109:27 at the top right that's
109:31 

109:31 essentially you within an organization
109:33 

109:33 can take this body of standards and
109:35 

109:35 implement that yourselves or you can ask
109:38 

109:38 folks to facilitate that for you who
109:40 

109:40 might be familiar with them nibs can do
109:43 

109:43 that I know other you know AE
109:45 

109:45 organizations have helped folks do that
109:48 

109:48 um but that's sort of where that
109:50 

109:50 connection happens and and to Paul's
109:53 

109:53 point um we need a plan and a process
109:56 

109:56 and all those things and training put in
109:58 

109:58 place. So that little connector up top
110:02 

110:02 is sort of the the point to start to
110:04 

110:04 think about that who's going to connect
110:05 

110:05 these standards to actual
110:07 

110:07 implementation. I think
110:10 

110:10 so this is our last slide. I just want
110:12 

110:12 to give everyone a chance. We'll keep
110:14 

110:14 this up here for a minute. Um if you're
110:16 

110:16 interested in getting involved with and
110:18 

110:18 contributing to the tag, um you can get
110:21 

110:21 that first QR code. Um I am the the
110:25 

110:25 chair of that now. So your role on that
110:28 

110:28 would be membership in the the committee
110:32 

110:32 and participation in votes. We've got
110:34 

110:34 you know if you hit that QR code that'll
110:36 

110:36 take you to a form. We've got a few
110:38 

110:38 things in there about how there is you
110:41 

110:41 know expectation sort of time commitment
110:43 

110:43 to it. It's not huge but um we do want
110:46 

110:46 to make sure we've got committed folks
110:49 

110:49 on it if we are going to be members. Um
110:53 

110:53 the second one is the digital technology
110:55 

110:55 council which oversees the update to the
110:58 

110:58 national BIM standard as well as the
110:60 

110:60 national CAD standard. Um and we're
111:03 

111:03 working to find ways to integrate
111:05 

111:05 together uh in a more intentional
111:09 

111:09 fashion the Ashray nibs an standard 224
111:15 

111:15 for owners. So um your role there again
111:19 

111:19 would be a council membership. Both of
111:21 

111:21 these are of course free and they're
111:23 

111:23 just voluntary type of contribution. But
111:26 

111:26 the the digital technology council has
111:29 

111:29 multiple committees focused on digital
111:31 

111:31 delivery field technologies and um
111:36 

111:36 digital twin is the third one. So
111:39 

111:39 through there um we've got working
111:41 

111:41 groups focused on several things but uh
111:44 

111:44 several working groups are focused on
111:46 

111:46 just the national dem standard and
111:48 

111:48 national CAD standard.
111:50 

111:50 And then the last one is just my
111:53 

111:53 contact. Um, if you and of course you
111:55 

111:55 got Roger's information, but if you are
111:58 

111:58 looking to champion change in your
111:60 

111:60 organization and would like support from
112:02 

112:02 NIBs, just wanted to throw my contact
112:04 

112:04 there. Um, and sort of our contracting
112:07 

112:07 capabilities to do that. But that's
112:10 

112:10 that's everything we have for today.
112:12 

112:12 Roger. Anything else?
112:14 

112:14 >> Um, no, that that's good. And you know,
112:17 

112:17 I think it may be somebody in your
112:19 

112:19 organization, but I think um looking for
112:22 

112:22 a way to get involved in this tag and
112:24 

112:24 and engaging with that activity um is
112:28 

112:28 would be great to get some
112:30 

112:30 representation from people who are
112:32 

112:32 trying to use these standards and are
112:34 

112:34 involved in them. And especially I think
112:37 

112:37 with ISO 19650, it's critical. We we're
112:40 

112:40 already getting pretty good input for
112:42 

112:42 the exchange standards through people
112:45 

112:45 that are working now on IFC and trying
112:47 

112:47 to use it. Um and um that that feedback
112:50 

112:50 can go through building smart and get to
112:52 

112:52 ISO, but the only way to get directly
112:55 

112:55 into ISO 19650 is through this tag to
112:59 

112:59 give input and get involved with it. And
113:01 

113:01 that helps to learn how to use it and
113:03 

113:03 apply it. So be great to get people
113:06 

113:06 within your organizations that could
113:09 

113:09 join into that effort. Um and we'll be
113:12 

113:12 as Jay said doing more to get that up
113:14 

113:14 and running and and rebuild now. So um
113:17 

113:17 you know that's what we wanted to share
113:19 

113:19 what's going on uh here to advance the
113:23 

113:23 use of 19650 and related standards. um
113:27 

113:27 national BIM standard has a lot of value
113:29 

113:29 I think too particularly in the BIM
113:31 

113:31 execution planning module but there's
113:33 

113:33 also other modules in there that have
113:36 

113:36 BIM uses and uh project requirements
113:38 

113:38 that can be applicable and uh yeah we we
113:43 

113:43 do things with NIBs to try and help
113:45 

113:45 advance these things all the time and
113:47 

113:47 trying more and more to bring
113:48 

113:48 infrastructure into the into the d
113:51 

113:51 discussion and uh work on things
113:56 

113:56 Um we um we uh are about to go on break.
114:02 

114:02 We're just a little bit behind, but
114:03 

114:03 we're going to take a break now. If
114:05 

114:05 there's any any questions, um we can we
114:09 

114:09 could take a question now or I'll be
114:11 

114:11 around. I can answer questions and I
114:13 

114:13 think Jay's going to stay online and
114:14 

114:14 we'll have some discussion later after
114:17 

114:17 we look at the case studies. So I think
114:20 

114:20 seeing those will also maybe lead to
114:23 

114:23 some questions about these standards and
114:25 

114:25 how they work and how we can use them.
114:30 

114:30 No questions online. Oh Sean. Yeah. Um
114:34 

114:34 please uh
114:36 

114:36 there's a microphone. Sean, thanks.
114:40 

114:40 >> Hi. Thank you. Um yeah, Sean Perfect
114:43 

114:43 Arizona um DOT. Uh basically I'm just
114:47 

114:47 involved with the um BIM for
114:49 

114:49 infrastructure poolled fund and I didn't
114:51 

114:51 see any specifics up there with national
114:53 

114:53 standards related to BIM but I just want
114:55 

114:55 to make sure that uh the BIM for
114:58 

114:58 infrastructure pool fund and the BIM for
114:60 

114:60 uh bridges is included with those uh
115:03 

115:03 considerations with the BIM national
115:05 

115:05 standards.
115:07 

115:07 >> Uh yeah uh thank you Sean. I mean we're
115:09 

115:09 certainly very aware aware of them. I
115:11 

115:11 think there in the in this context
115:14 

115:14 they're not really standards development
115:16 

115:16 organizations is they're doing
115:18 

115:18 implementation of the standards and
115:20 

115:20 providing input to the standards
115:22 

115:22 organizations for example. So, um I
115:26 

115:26 think that's at least in the context of
115:28 

115:28 that diagram why they wouldn't
115:30 

115:30 necessarily appear there.
115:32 

115:32 >> Yeah, because we're they're developing
115:34 

115:34 some very good tools uh related to IDM,
115:38 

115:38 IDS's um data dictionaries. So,
115:41 

115:41 >> um
115:42 

115:42 >> and I think those are coming into the
115:43 

115:43 building smart US chapter to then
115:46 

115:46 standardize those and everything. So,
115:49 

115:49 yeah, I guess they I mean they certainly
115:50 

115:50 are playing a strong role in there. So,
115:52 

115:52 thanks for pointing that out, Sean.
115:56 

115:56 Yeah, good.
115:60 

115:60 Okay.
116:06 

116:06 >> Um, the middle QR code is not working
116:09 

116:09 correctly. Okay. Um, Jay, maybe you can
116:13 

116:13 check that.
116:14 

116:14 >> Oh, yes. I think our website is being
116:17 

116:17 modified the next couple weeks. So, if
116:21 

116:21 you Google NIBs digital technology
116:24 

116:24 council, it should bring you to the
116:25 

116:25 active page.
116:27 

116:27 >> All right. Well, um let's uh take our
116:31 

116:31 somewhat shortened break now, but we'll
116:34 

116:34 come back. We'll try to come back at 10.
116:37 

116:37 Is that what we have on the agenda?
116:42 

116:42 Yeah, at 10:10 to um start up our next
116:47 

116:47 block with the uh case studies. Thank
116:50 

116:50 you, Jay. And thank you everyone.
116:52 

116:52 >> Thank you.
130:04 

130:04 All right. Um everyone, we're going to
130:08 

130:08 get started again here with our uh the
130:11 

130:11 next section of our workshop. Uh so um
130:15 

130:15 please uh grab your seats and um get
130:19 

130:19 ready for some interesting information
130:21 

130:21 to come your way and that's working up
130:23 

130:23 to some discussion later. Um, so, um,
130:28 

130:28 first of all, I think we might have a
130:31 

130:31 question or, um, before we get into
130:34 

130:34 Arizona's presentation,
130:36 

130:36 um, Mina, do are you we see your hand
130:40 

130:40 raised? Are do you have a question you
130:42 

130:42 want to ask
130:49 

130:49 >> online? That is um um
130:54 

130:54 Okay. Well, we'll if you do, we'll get
130:57 

130:57 to you later. Um, so next we're going to
131:01 

131:01 go to a presentation from Mike Dembler
131:04 

131:04 with Arizona DOT. Mike's going to share
131:08 

131:08 um what Arizona is up to in their use of
131:11 

131:11 information process, information
131:14 

131:14 management process standardization
131:16 

131:16 efforts, in particular, what they're
131:19 

131:19 doing with ISO 19650 and maybe a little
131:21 

131:21 bit about how they've gotten there. So,
131:25 

131:25 Mike, um, we're gonna turn the floor
131:27 

131:27 over to you to present. Uh, we can see
131:30 

131:30 your screen and I think we're good to
131:33 

131:33 go.
131:34 

131:34 >> Excellent. Can you guys hear me? Okay.
131:37 

131:37 >> Yes.
131:38 

131:38 >> Fantastic. And you can see my
131:40 

131:40 presentation.
131:41 

131:41 >> Yes, we can.
131:42 

131:42 >> Awesome. So, good morning. Um, greetings
131:45 

131:45 from Arizona where summer has arrived
131:47 

131:47 way too early in March. Unfortunately,
131:51 

131:51 it's a little warm here. Uh but uh warm
131:53 

131:53 greetings uh to our friends there in
131:55 

131:55 Chicago and everyone around the country.
131:57 

131:57 Um thank you for this opportunity. My
131:59 

131:59 name is Mike Blaker. I'm the deputy
132:01 

132:01 state engineer for design, but I've been
132:02 

132:02 working as the digital delivery program
132:05 

132:05 manager here at AOT. Um I'm going to go
132:08 

132:08 through presentation. The focus is on
132:10 

132:10 the 19650 strategy. That was what was
132:12 

132:12 asked of me to present. Um but I do want
132:14 

132:14 to take a few steps back in my There we
132:18 

132:18 go. Um, and I think looking back at
132:21 

132:21 where we've come from, um, is important.
132:23 

132:23 I'll touch base and go through a brief
132:24 

132:24 overview of our background and how we
132:26 

132:26 got here. Obviously, touch base on our
132:28 

132:28 19650 strategy and then some updates on
132:31 

132:31 where we're at and where we're going.
132:33 

132:33 Uh, one of the things that I appreciated
132:35 

132:35 over the last the previous two meetings
132:37 

132:37 but even yesterday is just hearing from
132:39 

132:39 the presenters and and um sharing and
132:42 

132:42 hearing from some of the colleagues out
132:44 

132:44 around the country is just an
132:45 

132:45 affirmation of the steps that we have
132:47 

132:47 taken. Um, obviously information to help
132:51 

132:51 correct and adjust where we're heading.
132:53 

132:53 Um, one of the big things I heard too
132:55 

132:55 yesterday is the importance of road
132:56 

132:56 maps. Um, and so what I want to just do
133:00 

133:00 is just focus on our digital delivery
133:02 

133:02 focus here because this is what's
133:03 

133:03 important is that roadmap um to set the
133:07 

133:07 ground or the path forward. Um, I've
133:09 

133:09 done a number of of cross-country road
133:11 

133:11 trips and maps are important. Um,
133:14 

133:14 obviously the end destination is where
133:17 

133:17 we want to go, but there's often times
133:18 

133:18 where we take some side tracks and some
133:20 

133:20 detours. Um, sometimes we slow down. um
133:23 

133:23 we have to make some corrections um and
133:26 

133:26 adjustments to our path based on lessons
133:28 

133:28 learned um and and that's where we're
133:30 

133:30 at. We set a and created a roadmap
133:33 

133:33 several years ago um and we've largely
133:36 

133:36 stayed on the path. We know where the
133:38 

133:38 end destination is, but we've had to
133:40 

133:40 make some corrections. And frankly,
133:41 

133:41 we're at a point where we need to make
133:43 

133:43 some adjustments to that road map to
133:45 

133:45 adjust not not our focus areas, uh, but
133:48 

133:48 just some of the steps that we have
133:50 

133:50 taken and some steps that we have to
133:52 

133:52 take in order to keep moving this thing
133:54 

133:54 forward. Our road map really had four
133:56 

133:56 focused areas. Um, you can see them on
133:58 

133:58 the screen. Strategies. This is really
134:00 

134:00 the why. Why are we doing this? And I
134:02 

134:02 think a road map for digital delivery
134:04 

134:04 for any state whether you have them or
134:06 

134:06 you are working on developing them is is
134:08 

134:08 really you need to ask the question why
134:11 

134:11 because that really will guide the
134:13 

134:13 decisions and the path forward for what
134:15 

134:15 you're doing. Um technology obviously we
134:17 

134:17 just touched base on is the investment
134:18 

134:18 in technology is important but also not
134:21 

134:21 just the tools and the software to have
134:22 

134:22 in our hands but how do we use them and
134:24 

134:24 making sure we train and equip our
134:26 

134:26 staff. And then people getting the right
134:28 

134:28 people in the right place um is
134:31 

134:31 important. Um we just heard about that
134:33 

134:33 is making sure that we um identify those
134:35 

134:35 leaders that can really champion this
134:37 

134:37 effort and move it forward. Um and then
134:40 

134:40 making sure that we have the processes
134:41 

134:41 in place. Um if we don't have them,
134:44 

134:44 making sure that we do have them. And
134:46 

134:46 that was one of the big things we
134:48 

134:48 identified through our early stages is
134:49 

134:49 is that in order to get to that end
134:51 

134:51 destination on our road map, we needed
134:53 

134:53 to create some new processes that we
134:55 

134:55 just did not have in place uh for the
134:57 

134:57 digital delivery. So our first question
134:60 

134:60 in that strategy is really asking that
135:02 

135:02 why why are we here and why why are we
135:04 

135:04 doing this? Um we get this all the time
135:06 

135:06 from staff change management obviously
135:08 

135:08 is is why digital delivery? um not just
135:11 

135:11 our internal staff but our our
135:13 

135:13 consultant partners, contracting
135:15 

135:15 partners and so forth. And as we heard
135:17 

135:17 yesterday, it's all about this
135:18 

135:18 technology is moving and we need to move
135:20 

135:20 along with it. We need to modernize the
135:22 

135:22 project delivery process and then making
135:24 

135:24 sure that we manage and share that data.
135:28 

135:28 So we had to have some clear objectives
135:30 

135:30 again the path forward um and those were
135:32 

135:32 developing that standardized digital
135:34 

135:34 delivery standards uh processes,
135:36 

135:36 guidance and tools. Obviously our goal
135:39 

135:39 here is 2D and 3D digital technologies
135:41 

135:41 to create those high quality uh models
135:43 

135:43 and informations to share and then to
135:46 

135:46 make sure that we had the processes to
135:47 

135:47 share um share that um consistently
135:50 

135:50 across the play across our project
135:53 

135:53 development process and that's the focus
135:54 

135:54 of what I want to share in our 19650
135:57 

135:57 journey.
135:58 

135:58 Um so technology again this is one of
136:00 

136:00 the four focus areas just investing in
136:03 

136:03 the technologies investing in our tools
136:05 

136:05 and software. We are a Bentley state.
136:08 

136:08 Um, so some of the language I'm using in
136:11 

136:11 terms are obviously Bentley focused, but
136:13 

136:13 we want to make sure that we are current
136:15 

136:15 um in our in our platforms that we're
136:17 

136:17 using and then equipping um our staff to
136:20 

136:20 utilize that and maximize the use. Uh
136:22 

136:22 project-wise development, we were not a
136:24 

136:24 project-wise state. Um we were an
136:26 

136:26 on-prem serverbased um system system
136:30 

136:30 base here at state. So one of our big
136:32 

136:32 leap forwards is understanding that we
136:33 

136:33 needed that common uh data environment
136:36 

136:36 to work in so we can collaborate, share
136:38 

136:38 and make sure our standard work is in
136:39 

136:39 place and project wise is the tool that
136:42 

136:42 we have here in Arizona.
136:44 

136:44 So processes um if we have the tools and
136:47 

136:47 technologies, we have the people in
136:49 

136:49 place, we need to make sure we have our
136:51 

136:51 standards uh for workflows, for data
136:53 

136:53 sharing, we need to make sure that those
136:55 

136:55 were current. Um they were in place that
136:58 

136:58 we could advance these and 19650 is a
137:00 

137:00 step that we took um in in creating that
137:04 

137:04 path forward in that in that
137:05 

137:05 standardized workflow. So we established
137:08 

137:08 new file naming and I'll get into this
137:10 

137:10 and organization conventions. um as I
137:13 

137:13 touched base is the project wise
137:14 

137:14 environment. Uh making sure that we had
137:16 

137:16 the workflows to to um make sure we good
137:20 

137:20 had good handoffs of the information
137:22 

137:22 between the different users and then
137:23 

137:23 making sure that we had clear definition
137:26 

137:26 expectations for the different roles and
137:29 

137:29 responsibilities of individuals that
137:30 

137:30 were in our projects. Um where I'm part
137:34 

137:34 of my effort here too and and today is
137:36 

137:36 is I want to highlight and kind of
137:38 

137:38 emphasize where we are focusing on is
137:40 

137:40 the project development or the design
137:42 

137:42 process. That's where we felt we were
137:44 

137:44 the most mature in our our workflow and
137:47 

137:47 could tackle our workflow. We know that
137:49 

137:49 the enterprise is still the full project
137:51 

137:51 life cycle as we heard earlier is get to
137:53 

137:53 the assets and the assets back into the
137:54 

137:54 project development process. But we are
137:57 

137:57 taking step by step. We identified this
137:59 

137:59 is where the logical place to start is.
138:02 

138:02 But we know that assets uh construction
138:04 

138:04 handoff obviously and then asset
138:06 

138:06 management is is the next logical step
138:08 

138:08 and those are the steps we will be
138:10 

138:10 taking moving forward.
138:12 

138:12 And then people u making sure we
138:14 

138:14 equipped. Um so we are investing in
138:16 

138:16 software provided training but we're
138:18 

138:18 also developing um ADOT customized
138:20 

138:20 training um not just for our internal
138:22 

138:22 people um here at ADOT but also our
138:25 

138:25 stakeholders in the construction and
138:26 

138:26 consulting communities. um equipping,
138:29 

138:29 making sure that we had the uh right
138:31 

138:31 equipment in place to advance uh these
138:33 

138:33 um this initiative and then
138:35 

138:35 communication with any change management
138:37 

138:37 whether it's processes or new standards
138:40 

138:40 or new tools is making sure that we
138:41 

138:41 communicate share that information. So
138:43 

138:43 we're advancing that through websites
138:45 

138:45 through different materials but also
138:47 

138:47 collaboration uh with industry.
138:51 

138:51 So our 19650 strategy um again going
138:54 

138:54 back to the why um early on we did an a
138:58 

138:58 gap assessment um when we identified
139:01 

139:01 this is the path we wanted to go we
139:02 

139:02 needed to understand where we were at
139:04 

139:04 and one of the gaps that we definitely
139:06 

139:06 identified is we did not have good
139:07 

139:07 standard work uh data flows workflows
139:11 

139:11 um to be to position ourselves with the
139:13 

139:13 new um direction we're taking with
139:16 

139:16 digital delivery um 19650 after looking
139:19 

139:19 at a variety of different means. Um
139:21 

139:21 19650 provided that framework for
139:23 

139:23 managing that information and so we took
139:25 

139:25 the steps forward to follow that um
139:28 

139:28 initiate that but also adapt what we're
139:30 

139:30 doing into the 19650. Um 19650 provided
139:34 

139:34 us that framework but it also had some u
139:37 

139:37 provided us some opportunities to
139:39 

139:39 customize it. Um what we say internally
139:42 

139:42 is just adotize it um using new or
139:45 

139:45 familiar terms acronyms and definitions.
139:49 

139:49 Um but obviously the key here with 19650
139:51 

139:51 is it standardizes that workflow that we
139:54 

139:54 just did not have in place. Um you can
139:56 

139:56 see here is it allows and provides that
139:58 

139:58 opportunity for good and clear
139:60 

140:00 collaboration and information sharing
140:02 

140:02 between our surveyors and planners to
140:03 

140:03 our designers to our construction teams
140:06 

140:06 and then ultimately our asset
140:07 

140:07 management. And then just because
140:09 

140:09 there's different platforms we use here
140:12 

140:12 uh from Bentley to other GIS to Trimble
140:15 

140:15 to other platforms and we have
140:16 

140:16 consultants that are in the um Autodesk
140:18 

140:18 environment too is is the goal is
140:20 

140:20 ultimately the better interoperability
140:22 

140:22 between all those safe um software
140:24 

140:24 programs um and management systems. Um
140:28 

140:28 so again it's it's going back to that uh
140:30 

140:30 road map that we had established is
140:32 

140:32 identifying where that gap was and this
140:34 

140:34 is one of them and 19650 provided us
140:36 

140:36 that opportunity.
140:39 

140:39 So again why 19650? Um it provides those
140:42 

140:42 business rules for collaborative project
140:44 

140:44 delivery and project information uh when
140:46 

140:46 using the BIM and digital uh delivery.
140:49 

140:49 So four focus areas here is just
140:50 

140:50 information standards, data organization
140:52 

140:52 and sharing procedures and production
140:55 

140:55 methods. So what information standards
140:57 

140:57 will we use? These are questions that we
140:59 

140:59 had to ask and we had to define. We know
141:01 

141:01 that they will evolve um and grow uh but
141:05 

141:05 obviously our first focuses is where
141:06 

141:06 we're at. So we had to make sure that we
141:08 

141:08 had good definitions for our CAD and BIB
141:10 

141:10 standards. Our level of information need
141:13 

141:13 survey accuracies and point densities
141:15 

141:15 coordinate systems and units. Again
141:17 

141:17 making sure that we were all um had a
141:19 

141:19 standard platform to move off of. How
141:22 

141:22 will those data and files be organized?
141:24 

141:24 This is key for um those transitions or
141:26 

141:26 those handoffs. So making sure that we
141:28 

141:28 had good um consistent naming
141:30 

141:30 conventions, what that data structure
141:32 

141:32 would look like within our models and
141:34 

141:34 then making sure that we had a platform
141:35 

141:35 or location and that was our common data
141:37 

141:37 environment. And then what procedures um
141:40 

141:40 you know how are we going to share files
141:42 

141:42 and information? When are we going to
141:43 

141:43 share files and information? Who's going
141:45 

141:45 to share those files? We need to make
141:47 

141:47 sure that that was defined.
141:49 

141:49 and then making sure that we had uh the
141:51 

141:51 production methods in place from
141:53 

141:53 software and file formats um data
141:55 

141:55 structures and the like.
141:59 

141:59 So again just under the theme of Y19650
142:03 

142:03 um just like any good engineer um and
142:05 

142:05 working with other engineers is file
142:07 

142:07 names do tend to evolve over a period of
142:09 

142:09 time um and we recognized that we just
142:12 

142:12 we needed to take that step back and
142:13 

142:13 create that standardized naming
142:15 

142:15 conventions. Um so what we did is again
142:18 

142:18 looking at ISO 19650 which provided some
142:21 

142:21 guidance on what a um standardized
142:24 

142:24 naming convention is. We started there
142:26 

142:26 and then customized it a little bit to
142:27 

142:27 where AOT is. But we did hold hold to
142:30 

142:30 the principles that provide consistent
142:32 

142:32 file naming conventions for all users
142:34 

142:34 not just me and not just someone else
142:36 

142:36 but all users not just internal ADOT
142:39 

142:39 folks but all our customers too our
142:42 

142:42 consultants that do a significant
142:43 

142:43 portion of our work. something that is
142:45 

142:45 standardized and repeatable. Um we it
142:48 

142:48 provides organizational understanding of
142:50 

142:50 the file contents. Um again I'm sure you
142:53 

142:53 all have uh files on your systems that
142:56 

142:56 you just don't know what they are or
142:57 

142:57 what's in them. Um providing this
142:60 

142:60 consistency enabled effective and
143:02 

143:02 efficient identification and retrieval
143:04 

143:04 of information um based on the data
143:06 

143:06 fields that are defined improved
143:08 

143:08 efficiency on finding information and
143:10 

143:10 reducing conflicts and provided
143:12 

143:12 geographic location information. So
143:14 

143:14 route ids where where in the state of
143:16 

143:16 Arizona is this project located and then
143:19 

143:19 it allows for that and facilitates data
143:21 

143:21 transfer through all phases of the
143:23 

143:23 project. Um, like I said, our first
143:25 

143:25 focus is on the survey and the design,
143:27 

143:27 but ultimately as it gets into
143:29 

143:29 construction and into asset management.
143:32 

143:32 Um, by having this repeatable and
143:34 

143:34 standardized file naming conventions,
143:35 

143:35 the users, the people that access this
143:38 

143:38 knows what what the file is, what the
143:40 

143:40 what's in the file, who prepared the
143:43 

143:43 file, and uh where that information is
143:45 

143:45 at geographically in the state.
143:50 

143:50 Common data environments were key. Um
143:53 

143:53 like I said, we were not a project-wise
143:55 

143:55 um state. We were on prem and just
143:57 

143:57 working through the servers. Um we
143:59 

143:59 needed to make sure that we had that
143:60 

143:60 standardized common data environment. Um
144:02 

144:02 and what we also recogniz is is because
144:05 

144:05 we collaborate um with external users um
144:09 

144:09 consultants and so forth, whether it's
144:10 

144:10 collaborating on the same project or uh
144:13 

144:13 consultants are designing projects and
144:15 

144:15 delivering to us. We needed a common
144:16 

144:16 data environment that we could all
144:18 

144:18 access and share. Um so again creating
144:21 

144:21 that standardized common data
144:22 

144:22 environment provided that consistent
144:24 

144:24 organization and workflow provided a
144:26 

144:26 single source of truth or data
144:28 

144:28 information for collaboration provided
144:31 

144:31 that standardized workflow and data flow
144:33 

144:33 um that we could document. Um and what I
144:37 

144:37 want to highlight and I think it was
144:38 

144:38 mentioned earlier is what we're calling
144:40 

144:40 is our digital digital delivery
144:42 

144:42 execution plan which is that DDXP. Um it
144:46 

144:46 sounds like with ISO again that there's
144:47 

144:47 some considerations for new naming
144:49 

144:49 conventions. This is what ADOT decided
144:51 

144:51 to use. Um again the key here is is it
144:54 

144:54 provides and defines how each of the
144:57 

144:57 projects applies digital delivery
144:58 

144:58 standards within the common data
144:60 

144:60 environment. It outlines how the project
145:02 

145:02 teams will use those digital tools and
145:05 

145:05 workflows and information to manage the
145:07 

145:07 models data and coordination.
145:10 

145:10 Um and it connects planning into
145:13 

145:13 consistent and trusted execution. all
145:15 

145:15 the way through. We know who's doing it,
145:16 

145:16 who the responsibilities are, but also
145:18 

145:18 what the the deliverables will be. And
145:22 

145:22 then ultimately is the organization and
145:24 

145:24 understanding of what's in the project
145:25 

145:25 folders. Um again, effective and
145:28 

145:28 efficient organization.
145:30 

145:30 Um ISO formatted file structure. Um
145:32 

145:32 that's recommended. And then the digital
145:34 

145:34 delivery execution plan is key.
145:39 

145:39 So the common data environment as I
145:42 

145:42 explained to people here is why we're
145:44 

145:44 doing this. Um the example that I've
145:46 

145:46 used in other presentations is these the
145:48 

145:48 the famous at least in my house is the
145:50 

145:50 um kind of the junk drawer in your
145:52 

145:52 kitchen. Um it starts off organized um
145:56 

145:56 as our servers were and our our project
145:58 

145:58 folders were but over a period of time
145:59 

145:59 it just becomes a junk drawer by
146:01 

146:01 definition. We just don't know what's in
146:02 

146:02 there. Things are in there that we just
146:04 

146:04 don't know what they are, who put them
146:05 

146:05 in. Um and that common data environment
146:08 

146:08 which is project-wise for AOT uh
146:10 

146:10 provided that organization that single
146:12 

146:12 source of location uh for that
146:15 

146:15 information and collaboration
146:17 

146:17 created that opportunity for both
146:19 

146:19 in-house and external users to
146:21 

146:21 collaborate and work together and share
146:22 

146:22 information. Um this is a huge step
146:25 

146:25 forward for ADOT. Um I know a lot of
146:28 

146:28 states are already in that project wise
146:29 

146:29 environment but this was a big decision
146:31 

146:31 for us. Um a good decision and we're
146:33 

146:33 taking some positive steps forward. Um
146:35 

146:35 and again consistency with the 19650 is
146:38 

146:38 the organization and the information
146:40 

146:40 management um that is so important uh
146:43 

146:43 for what we're doing but also for the
146:45 

146:45 groundwork for the digital delivery
146:50 

146:50 19650 also again the standardized
146:52 

146:52 project setup and initiation process.
146:54 

146:54 This is how we start projects. We just
146:56 

146:56 we needed to make sure we have that
146:58 

146:58 standardized um roles and
146:59 

146:59 responsibilities. the handoff of
147:01 

147:01 information. This incorporates the
147:03 

147:03 digital delivery execution plan. Um it's
147:06 

147:06 standardized. All projects are expected
147:08 

147:08 to follow this. Uh it's repeatable. Um
147:11 

147:11 it's trusted. We know when we complete
147:13 

147:13 this project setup, we have a good solid
147:15 

147:15 foundation for starting the projects. Um
147:18 

147:18 establishes who the roles and
147:20 

147:20 responsibilities
147:21 

147:21 again what we're delivering um at the
147:24 

147:24 end of the day digitally or not. Um what
147:27 

147:27 software we're using, versioning, etc.
147:29 

147:29 Um that's important again. Um and then
147:32 

147:32 um the common data environment that we
147:34 

147:34 are going to be using um for all of the
147:37 

147:37 users.
147:41 

147:41 We also recognize the need to
147:43 

147:43 standardize our work and information uh
147:45 

147:45 flow. Um so this is this is critical. We
147:48 

147:48 saw this in the presentation beforehand.
147:50 

147:50 This is obviously a much simpler version
147:53 

147:53 um in and some very minor or broad steps
147:56 

147:56 here. Um but this provides us a standard
147:59 

147:59 workflow for all users for the
148:02 

148:02 especially for the data handoffs
148:03 

148:03 information handoffs between the
148:05 

148:05 critical steps. Um we needed to map this
148:08 

148:08 again to make sure that we had
148:09 

148:09 repeatable processes in place so that we
148:11 

148:11 could trust the information that's being
148:13 

148:13 handed off from one user to another. Um
148:16 

148:16 there is some customization again that
148:18 

148:18 we have within ADOT and again that's um
148:21 

148:21 slightly different from ISO but the
148:23 

148:23 principles are still there. um the whip
148:25 

148:25 or the work in progress QAQC
148:28 

148:28 um I believe in ISO it's called shared
148:30 

148:30 state again it's a matter of providing a
148:33 

148:33 clear understanding of what uh actions
148:35 

148:35 the users and roles or those individual
148:37 

148:37 roles will be doing um review um this is
148:40 

148:40 an added step for us um but this is the
148:43 

148:43 official handoff um which is different
148:46 

148:46 um from the QAQC process it's intended
148:49 

148:49 for that collaboration between the
148:51 

148:51 stakeholders um not creating the models
148:53 

148:53 so these are the externals like project
148:55 

148:55 managers and so forth that aren't in
148:57 

148:57 hands into the models and the
148:59 

148:59 information but they need and the value
149:01 

149:01 that they provide in the reviews um and
149:04 

149:04 then archiving um is that next step um
149:07 

149:07 in the process again here it's just part
149:09 

149:09 of our ADOT project management and
149:10 

149:10 project deliverment deliverable uh
149:13 

149:13 stages again key here is is as in the
149:16 

149:16 previous presentation is is that
149:18 

149:18 standardized workflow
149:21 

149:21 and then the standardized uh design and
149:23 

149:23 data preview. Um, again, with as I share
149:27 

149:27 with folks here or even u some partners
149:29 

149:29 that I work with, we're very familiar
149:31 

149:31 with the 2D paper or PDF handoffs that
149:34 

149:34 we have. We know where to look for
149:35 

149:35 information, where to pull off
149:37 

149:37 information on guard rails or pipe
149:39 

149:39 information, how to find the geometric
149:41 

149:41 information of our roads. But when we
149:43 

149:43 transition into that digital world, now
149:46 

149:46 what where do I get this information?
149:48 

149:48 Um, and so we needed to make sure that
149:50 

149:50 we had processes in place and guides in
149:52 

149:52 place um, to allow for that review. And
149:54 

149:54 so ISO and our workflow that we're
149:57 

149:57 developing here positions us aligns us
149:59 

149:59 with recent NCHRP publications and
150:01 

150:01 guidance. Again, when, what, who, how
150:05 

150:05 information is being reviewed, um, the
150:08 

150:08 procedures that are in place, and then
150:09 

150:09 how to validate the information. So
150:11 

150:11 there's two primary areas in the review
150:13 

150:13 process that we're um we've identified
150:16 

150:16 and we need to make sure that are
150:17 

150:17 incorporated into our review. That's the
150:18 

150:18 model design intent. Um and then the
150:21 

150:21 design compliance. Design compliance is
150:23 

150:23 really what we've traditionally looked
150:25 

150:25 at is the accuracy, making sure our math
150:27 

150:27 is right, making sure that our specs are
150:29 

150:29 right and so forth. The model design is
150:31 

150:31 really when the reviewer checks the
150:33 

150:33 design for compliance with those uh
150:35 

150:35 modeling standards and performs the
150:37 

150:37 checks to assess the integrity of the
150:39 

150:39 model. Um the design compliance again is
150:42 

150:42 when the reviewer checks compliance with
150:44 

150:44 survey standards, design discipline
150:46 

150:46 standards, quantities, clash detections
150:48 

150:48 etc. Um both are critically important
150:51 

150:51 but again the model design is a is a
150:53 

150:53 newer step especially in the um digital
150:55 

150:55 delivery environment. Um so and then
150:59 

150:59 within that model design intent um we
151:02 

151:02 have model standards. We need to make
151:04 

151:04 sure that the exchange requirements, the
151:06 

151:06 geometrics information and the CAD
151:07 

151:07 standards are followed. And then the
151:09 

151:09 model integrity is making sure that the
151:11 

151:11 model elements are all well put
151:13 

151:13 together. Um no line gaps um no other
151:16 

151:16 issues with regards to the um points,
151:19 

151:19 the lines, the shapes and so forth. So
151:21 

151:21 getting into the model again and making
151:22 

151:22 sure that whatever is conveyed to the
151:24 

151:24 next user um and the next step um our
151:27 

151:27 customers ultimately uh that it's
151:29 

151:29 reliable and accurate for the purpose
151:31 

151:31 needed.
151:34 

151:34 And then 19650 also stresses the
151:36 

151:36 important of standardizing the roles and
151:38 

151:38 responsibilities of who's using this
151:40 

151:40 information, who's accessing, who's
151:42 

151:42 developing it um etc. So we needed to
151:44 

151:44 make sure that we had standardized roles
151:46 

151:46 and responsibilities for those various
151:48 

151:48 team members. Um this provides ownership
151:51 

151:51 um it provides some accountability um
151:53 

151:53 with regards to the information that's
151:55 

151:55 there, expectations and alignment with
151:57 

151:57 that data flow. Again, we can create
151:59 

151:59 that data flow, but if we don't have
152:01 

152:01 good understanding of who's doing what,
152:03 

152:03 when, and how, um, we're missing a
152:06 

152:06 critical information and we're not
152:07 

152:07 setting ourselves up for success. So,
152:09 

152:09 defining these roles and
152:10 

152:10 responsibilities helps support that
152:12 

152:12 workflow and ensure some success in
152:14 

152:14 that.
152:16 

152:16 And then I appreciated the comment made
152:18 

152:18 in the previous presentation. The
152:20 

152:20 important here is is just getting the
152:21 

152:21 right information for the right people
152:23 

152:23 at the right time. um we are creating
152:25 

152:25 and have just a ton of data information
152:28 

152:28 in our designs. We need to make sure
152:29 

152:29 that we get it to the right people so
152:31 

152:31 that they can use it in the right way.
152:33 

152:33 Um so we need to make sure we define the
152:35 

152:35 wise, the ws, and the hows and what
152:37 

152:37 information is there. Um we're pursuing
152:40 

152:40 the the level of information need and
152:42 

152:42 defining that as well as our model
152:44 

152:44 progression specs. Again, as we are
152:46 

152:46 continuing to develop, enhance,
152:47 

152:47 modernize um our models and our
152:50 

152:50 deliveries, we need to make sure that
152:51 

152:51 this is in place so that we can
152:53 

152:53 successfully convey that information and
152:55 

152:55 data to our end users.
153:01 

153:01 So, we we spent a lot of time just on
153:03 

153:03 that road map and that foundation um so
153:05 

153:05 we can make sure that we had a solid um
153:08 

153:08 solid path forward. That was ADOT's uh
153:10 

153:10 decision. And I know other states and
153:12 

153:12 agencies have, you know, dove in and
153:14 

153:14 then developed and enhanced their
153:16 

153:16 modeling standards and that's great.
153:18 

153:18 We've learned a lot from those states um
153:21 

153:21 you know the um that's benefited not
153:24 

153:24 only our approach um but I'm sure other
153:27 

153:27 states as well. Um so we're taking a lot
153:30 

153:30 of that ISO implementation and that
153:32 

153:32 standardized workflows and so forth and
153:33 

153:33 really um incorporating that into our
153:35 

153:35 survey and mapping specs as well as our
153:37 

153:37 design um and modeling guides. We need
153:40 

153:40 to make sure that when our surveys go
153:42 

153:42 out there, they know when they have to
153:43 

153:43 go out there and what they have to
153:44 

153:44 survey uh for the intended use. And then
153:48 

153:48 for the designers is is how and what to
153:50 

153:50 model. Again, what are our contractors
153:52 

153:52 in this most cases I'm going to be using
153:54 

153:54 that information, but it's not always
153:56 

153:56 contractors. It's sometimes it's other
153:58 

153:58 um customers that we need to consider.
153:60 

153:60 So, understanding what information needs
154:02 

154:02 to be conveyed is critical. again
154:04 

154:04 whether it's historically on a plan set
154:06 

154:06 or a piece of paper um but now more into
154:09 

154:09 the models and the data files that we're
154:11 

154:11 exchanging. Uh so these are new guides
154:14 

154:14 um these are um being finalized with
154:17 

154:17 regards to the updated process uh and
154:20 

154:20 we'll hopefully have that published
154:21 

154:21 soon.
154:23 

154:23 And then piloting uh this was brought up
154:25 

154:25 earlier too is is we need to start
154:27 

154:27 piloting this. We have been starting to
154:29 

154:29 pilot this. We've we've incorporated
154:31 

154:31 this into some early stages of some
154:32 

154:32 projects, but it's really testing that
154:34 

154:34 end toend workflow um because it's
154:36 

154:36 process. Um so we're testing the common
154:39 

154:39 data environment. We're testing the file
154:40 

154:40 naming and folder structures. We're
154:42 

154:42 testing the modeling and survey
154:43 

154:43 standards all to validate that workflow
154:46 

154:46 and collaboration opportunities. of
154:48 

154:48 starting in survey to get into our
154:50 

154:50 modeling and starting with the reporting
154:51 

154:51 and quantities and ultimately the
154:53 

154:53 handoffs and not just the handoffs to
154:55 

154:55 our ultimate customer like a contractor
154:57 

154:57 or the public. But sometimes it's it's
154:59 

154:59 survey um is developing survey for a
155:02 

155:02 customer which is our designer. Um and
155:04 

155:04 so we need to make sure that we're
155:05 

155:05 looking at that too. And then as
155:08 

155:08 mentioned earlier too is just the
155:09 

155:09 education and outreach u big focus is
155:12 

155:12 workforce development. Um we've focused
155:14 

155:14 internally um pretty heavily investing
155:17 

155:17 in our capabilities uh but providing the
155:19 

155:19 opportunity to to um share that training
155:22 

155:22 opportunities what we've learned uh with
155:24 

155:24 external users as well. And then and
155:27 

155:27 that's through communication outreach
155:28 

155:28 opportunities like this uh today but
155:31 

155:31 also here within the state u with
155:33 

155:33 consultant communities with our
155:34 

155:34 contracting communities. Um we have a
155:37 

155:37 significant number of tribal communities
155:39 

155:39 that we've started to outreach to. again
155:41 

155:41 just um sharing what we've learned um
155:43 

155:43 and then some of our our um county DOS
155:47 

155:47 and local agencies too um that are
155:49 

155:49 hearing what we're doing and
155:51 

155:51 understanding the value with regards to
155:52 

155:52 the direction we are taking um and
155:54 

155:54 advancing our digital but also our the
155:57 

155:57 important things with regards to um data
155:60 

155:60 workflows uh workflows within um our
156:02 

156:02 offices as well.
156:06 

156:06 So just to kind of wrap things up here,
156:08 

156:08 the key here um with ISO that provides
156:10 

156:10 us um is is that standardizing that work
156:13 

156:13 and information and data flow uh between
156:15 

156:15 our creators. We recognize that in this
156:18 

156:18 new digital world that we are some are
156:20 

156:20 already in and some of us like us that
156:22 

156:22 are getting into is making sure that we
156:25 

156:25 have that standardization so that our
156:27 

156:27 ultimately our customers know what
156:28 

156:28 they're getting can rely on it um and
156:31 

156:31 then obviously can use it uh for the
156:33 

156:33 purpose that's intended. and most of
156:34 

156:34 that time is construction, but again
156:36 

156:36 it's all about communicating the design
156:38 

156:38 information um to those users.
156:43 

156:43 So I open it up for questions. I do have
156:45 

156:45 another commitment here uh later this
156:47 

156:47 morning. It's a couple hours earlier
156:49 

156:49 here. Um but I do appreciate this
156:51 

156:51 opportunity. I appreciate the
156:52 

156:52 opportunity to listen to what other
156:53 

156:53 states are doing uh what things are
156:55 

156:55 doing nationally and internationally. Um
156:58 

156:58 because that's how we're all benefiting.
156:60 

156:60 And so again, appreciate this
157:01 

157:01 opportunity and you're welcome to reach
157:03 

157:03 out to me. um after this meeting at any
157:05 

157:05 time.
157:07 

157:07 >> Thank you.
157:08 

157:08 >> Thank you, Michael. That was very
157:10 

157:10 interesting to see what's going on in
157:12 

157:12 Arizona. Um I'll keep that in mind the
157:16 

157:16 next time I'm there and get to ride on
157:18 

157:18 some of your beautiful roads.
157:21 

157:21 Um this will all make it uh feel all
157:23 

157:23 that much better, I'm sure. Um do we
157:26 

157:26 have anyone in the room that has any
157:28 

157:28 questions for Michael? Um see one back
157:31 

157:31 here, Terry.
157:33 

157:33 We'll bring the mic back to you. Yeah.
157:38 

157:38 >> Say your name again.
157:39 

157:39 >> Oh, yeah. Sorry. Uh Terry Klein, Infoch.
157:42 

157:42 Uh my question is about your comment on
157:44 

157:44 counties and tribal nations. Are are
157:47 

157:47 they interested in uh mimicking or or
157:50 

157:50 implementing their own solutions or
157:52 

157:52 mainly understanding what the state is
157:55 

157:55 doing?
157:57 

157:57 That's a great question and and we're
157:59 

157:59 you know we're at an early stage too as
158:01 

158:01 we're learning and so our intent at this
158:03 

158:03 point is sharing and informing them um
158:06 

158:06 just like where we started in our
158:08 

158:08 process. Um a lot of these local
158:11 

158:11 agencies have their processes in place
158:13 

158:13 and so forth their data configurations.
158:15 

158:15 Um some are actually in different
158:17 

158:17 platforms than us. So how do we relate
158:19 

158:19 or translate what we're doing into where
158:20 

158:20 they're at? Um but some of these tribal
158:23 

158:23 communities um
158:26 

158:26 they're at different stages in their
158:28 

158:28 tech technology and use of data um in
158:31 

158:31 their environments and communities as
158:33 

158:33 well. So we recognize that some are more
158:35 

158:35 advanced. Um there are some tribal
158:37 

158:37 communities here that are very similar
158:39 

158:39 to any type of sophisticated or advanced
158:42 

158:42 um uh communities or county DOS. Uh but
158:46 

158:46 some definitely don't have the resources
158:48 

158:48 or the infrastructure to support this.
158:50 

158:50 So, we're exploring that. We're at very
158:52 

158:52 early stages in some of the communities.
158:54 

158:54 There's there's u I believe there's 22
158:56 

158:56 tribal communities within Arizona. Uh 21
158:60 

158:60 of them are part of a a council of
159:02 

159:02 intertribal um agencies. And so, there's
159:05 

159:05 a lot of sharing of information there,
159:07 

159:07 not necessarily data and workflows, but
159:09 

159:09 information. So, we're tapping into that
159:11 

159:11 as well. Again, for us, it was all about
159:13 

159:13 inform so we could make some decisions.
159:15 

159:15 And that's where we're at in our stage.
159:24 

159:24 Hi Alan Top and Kimley Horn just what
159:27 

159:27 are the biggest challenges you face so
159:29 

159:29 far to broader adoption
159:32 

159:32 >> um communication I would say the change
159:34 

159:34 management um the wise um as I said
159:38 

159:38 earlier it's just a critical question it
159:40 

159:40 seems simple uh but even when we said
159:43 

159:43 hey we need to and make a made a
159:44 

159:44 decision to go with new file naming
159:46 

159:46 conventions um there was more than one
159:48 

159:48 why that came up during that
159:50 

159:50 conversation. And so we had to explore
159:52 

159:52 that and if we can answer the wise then
159:55 

159:55 we can definitely encourage and and the
159:57 

159:57 change becomes easier. If we can't say
159:60 

159:60 why or answer why then obviously change
160:03 

160:03 is going to be very much a lot more
160:05 

160:05 difficult um be because it's again it's
160:07 

160:07 a big step. It's a big change within
160:09 

160:09 where we're at. We've done agencies like
160:11 

160:11 ours have been around for a long time
160:13 

160:13 and there's a lot of historical
160:15 

160:15 ingrained traditional um efforts that
160:18 

160:18 have been in place and if we can't
160:20 

160:20 answer the why I think we're going to
160:22 

160:22 have some challenges moving forward and
160:24 

160:24 I would say that most of other states
160:26 

160:26 that have had and are more advanced in
160:28 

160:28 the digital delivery had similar
160:30 

160:30 challenges. They had to answer the why.
160:33 

160:33 Um I think again the the previous
160:35 

160:35 speaker um I don't remember the terms
160:37 

160:37 that were used but there was that top
160:39 

160:39 down saying you will use BIM. Um if
160:44 

160:44 there was an understanding as to why
160:46 

160:46 that's where I think that that
160:48 

160:48 individual was um I think recognized and
160:51 

160:51 highlighted the challenges that were
160:52 

160:52 there. But if you can answer the the why
160:55 

160:55 why BIM why digital delivery then we can
160:58 

160:58 make sure that then we can take the
160:60 

160:60 steps for technology for processes for
161:02 

161:02 people and then uh lessons learned and
161:05 

161:05 so forth and continue to advance this.
161:09 

161:09 >> Great. That's an interesting point there
161:11 

161:11 Mike and maybe something we can come
161:13 

161:13 together on answers to why uh that seems
161:17 

161:17 like they're shared by a lot of
161:19 

161:19 organizations. So that might be more
161:21 

161:21 powerful in a way too if we could set up
161:24 

161:24 uh some an collective answers to why to
161:26 

161:26 do this. Um yeah and change management
161:30 

161:30 of course important um how um I wondered
161:34 

161:34 how you you would respond to u Paul the
161:38 

161:38 previous speaker's equation of um spend
161:42 

161:42 you have to spend at least as much on
161:44 

161:44 people and process as you spend on
161:46 

161:46 technology.
161:49 

161:49 I would say that that's um
161:52 

161:52 I don't know if we've that equal line is
161:55 

161:55 is true here yet. We have been able to
161:57 

161:57 invest a lot in our technologies
161:59 

161:59 updating our um our hardware computers.
162:02 

162:02 I'm just again making sure that it had
162:04 

162:04 the uh capabilities to handle the more
162:07 

162:07 of the advanced software u modeling
162:09 

162:09 capabilities uh transfer of information.
162:12 

162:12 Um so I was successful in in that
162:14 

162:14 aspect. we were successful in getting
162:16 

162:16 ADCMS grant and that's allowed us to
162:19 

162:19 invest in some training uh but also the
162:22 

162:22 development of our processes and so
162:23 

162:23 forth. Um so again with that um in our I
162:28 

162:28 guess in our hands um that allowed for
162:31 

162:31 that advancement. We would have
162:32 

162:32 struggled um especially in the
162:34 

162:34 development of our processes and
162:35 

162:35 training without that additional
162:37 

162:37 investment opportunities. But I agree
162:39 

162:39 with him is is you can't just invest in
162:41 

162:41 the technologies without training our
162:43 

162:43 staff on how to use it. We can't invest
162:45 

162:45 in the technologies without having a you
162:47 

162:47 know understanding of what these
162:49 

162:49 processes will and how these processes
162:51 

162:51 will utilize that but also the staff.
162:53 

162:53 So, I definitely think those are
162:54 

162:54 connected. I can't if I had the formula
162:57 

162:57 and the the numbers, I'm not sure they
162:59 

162:59 would equal each other at this point,
163:00 

163:00 but I think what I saw in there is is um
163:04 

163:04 the point I took away is is we can't
163:05 

163:05 invest in one without investing in the
163:07 

163:07 others.
163:08 

163:08 >> Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. You have to have
163:11 

163:11 the technology to do these things. So,
163:13 

163:13 you got to start there, but balancing
163:16 

163:16 it. Yeah. Um Okay. Well, um, uh, I don't
163:22 

163:22 see any other questions. I think we had
163:23 

163:23 one Q&A question. Do we have any hands
163:26 

163:26 up online or
163:30 

163:30 >> Okay, we had Yeah. Um
163:40 

163:40 >> Yeah. Uh the question is is anyone using
163:43 

163:43 AI large language models to um I guess
163:48 

163:48 on any of this um activity around
163:51 

163:51 information management and uh process
163:55 

163:55 related things um which could be
163:60 

163:60 probably a session all unto its own but
164:03 

164:03 um if there's anybody that has a
164:06 

164:06 response Mike Mike maybe you have a
164:08 

164:08 response to that and then Maybe we'll
164:11 

164:11 hold the rest of the responses to our
164:14 

164:14 discussion later, but we could hear if
164:16 

164:16 you've done anything, Mike,
164:18 

164:18 >> with regards to AI specifically, is that
164:21 

164:21 the question?
164:22 

164:22 >> Yeah. And I guess large language models,
164:25 

164:25 chat environments to support what you're
164:28 

164:28 doing in this area of um information
164:32 

164:32 management.
164:33 

164:33 >> Um not specifically. I mean, I
164:35 

164:35 personally have dabbled a little bit in
164:36 

164:36 AI, but not um not within the firewalls
164:39 

164:39 of ADOT. Um we do have some pilot
164:43 

164:43 programs and some policies that are
164:44 

164:44 being developed with regards to the use
164:45 

164:45 of AI here. Uh but they have not
164:48 

164:48 necessarily connected with our digital
164:49 

164:49 delivery, not directly.
164:53 

164:53 >> Roger, since Mike has to leave, there
164:56 

164:56 was a specific question about AOT he
164:59 

164:59 might want to uh answer.
165:01 

165:01 is what disciplines does ADOT's modeling
165:04 

165:04 guidelines cover?
165:07 

165:07 >> Well, great question. Um, so before I
165:10 

165:10 took on the role of deputy state
165:12 

165:12 engineer, my my primary focus and
165:13 

165:13 background has been in roadway um, road
165:16 

165:16 design. And so that was the initial
165:18 

165:18 investment um, and initiative that we
165:20 

165:20 took. Um, we are developing and our so
165:23 

165:23 our modeling guide is heavily focused in
165:25 

165:25 on the roadway aspect of it. Um but
165:28 

165:28 there's obviously um some connections
165:32 

165:32 that are naturally in there with traffic
165:34 

165:34 and with bridge and with survey. Um what
165:37 

165:37 we're working on next is and focuses on
165:40 

165:40 bridge. Um knowing that the next steps
165:42 

165:42 and the next steps and the next steps to
165:44 

165:44 develop these modeling standards will
165:45 

165:45 continue into utilities and drainage and
165:47 

165:47 the like. But again we took going back
165:49 

165:49 to that road map. We know the end
165:51 

165:51 destination.
165:53 

165:53 um we know we can't get there in one day
165:56 

165:56 and so we made sure that we made some
165:58 

165:58 good decisions as to where do we start
165:60 

165:60 and that I would say that that was
166:01 

166:01 probably the most mature place that we
166:03 

166:03 could with regards to design and
166:04 

166:04 modeling in the roadway um build off of
166:07 

166:07 that success and to bridge and to you
166:09 

166:09 know and to the other disciplines as
166:11 

166:11 well.
166:14 

166:14 >> Great thank uh thanks for that answer
166:16 

166:16 Mike and um thanks for your
166:18 

166:18 presentation. And I think we'll we'll um
166:22 

166:22 cut you off there and then move on to
166:24 

166:24 hear from Oklahoma. But we really
166:26 

166:26 appreciate all that great information
166:28 

166:28 you shared. That's definitely one of our
166:29 

166:29 objectives to get out there what people
166:31 

166:31 are doing so we can collectively work
166:34 

166:34 together. So
166:36 

166:36 >> thank you.
166:43 

166:43 >> Okay. Okay, now we're going to u go a
166:46 

166:46 little further north and uh east and
166:50 

166:50 hear from Oklahoma about what's going on
166:53 

166:53 with their use of ISO 19650 and
166:57 

166:57 information management process. We
166:59 

166:59 actually heard from Oklahoma a little
167:01 

167:01 bit in our meeting in January about this
167:04 

167:04 idea and as Michael said at the
167:06 

167:06 beginning that was a catalyst for us
167:08 

167:08 doing this workshop. So, Michael's going
167:10 

167:10 to take us a little further into what
167:12 

167:12 Oklahoma's been doing and then we'll see
167:14 

167:14 what we want to talk about after that as
167:17 

167:17 far as uh continuing discussion. We have
167:19 

167:19 a few other people who I think are going
167:21 

167:21 to share um some insights into what
167:23 

167:23 their states are doing, not as
167:25 

167:25 presentations, but just as some remarks.
167:28 

167:28 So, Michael um um take it away.
167:33 

167:33 >> Thank you, Roger. Just do a quick mic
167:35 

167:35 check and then I'll get shared on my
167:36 

167:36 screen.
167:41 

167:41 You're good.
167:43 

167:43 >> Thank you.
167:48 

167:48 >> And you see my presentation?
167:50 

167:50 >> We can. Yes.
167:53 

167:53 >> All right, let's get started.
167:55 

167:55 Okay, so you're going you guys are going
167:57 

167:57 to hear a lot of the same things. Uh
167:59 

167:59 Michael G gave a great presentation of
168:01 

168:01 what Arizona is doing. Um, this
168:04 

168:04 presentation is going to get a little
168:05 

168:05 more into the weeds of the technology
168:08 

168:08 and to explain that just a little bit.
168:10 

168:10 Uh, when we applied for the grant, one
168:12 

168:12 of the things that was specific in there
168:14 

168:14 was building out that CDE and what we
168:17 

168:17 knew when we when we applied for the
168:19 

168:19 grant and was awarded the grant and what
168:21 

168:21 we know now are drastically different.
168:24 

168:24 And I I would say that we continuously
168:27 

168:27 pivot on different things throughout the
168:29 

168:29 weeks, sometimes the days. information
168:31 

168:31 is always coming in. So, uh, this is
168:34 

168:34 what we know today. Um, funny part is it
168:37 

168:37 could change tomorrow. Um, and this is
168:39 

168:39 kind of what I what I'm kind of calling
168:41 

168:41 the digital thread blueprint. And
168:42 

168:42 really, it's just trying to get to that
168:44 

168:44 dream with that asset information model.
168:46 

168:46 In the end,
168:48 

168:48 uh, for Oklahoma, we uh, as far as
168:52 

168:52 trying to get into this, we try to focus
168:54 

168:54 on these four pillars. People,
168:55 

168:55 processes, tools, and standards. Uh just
168:58 

168:58 like Arizona, there's a there are things
169:01 

169:01 around the tools that we had to upgrade
169:03 

169:03 like um we had to get rid of ignorance.
169:06 

169:06 I know some states are still trying to
169:07 

169:07 get through that process. Um
169:11 

169:11 our security team made it easy for us.
169:13 

169:13 They said get it removed and they just
169:14 

169:14 made it like it was just done in the
169:17 

169:17 middle of the night. It was just removed
169:18 

169:18 off machines. That was easy for us. Uh
169:21 

169:21 so we had to we had to upgrade our tool
169:23 

169:23 sets which kind of gets us into the
169:25 

169:25 human element. We also had to train on
169:26 

169:26 those tool sets. We also figured out
169:29 

169:29 that our project wise server was really
169:31 

169:31 too old to get into some of the newer
169:33 

169:33 advancements in say infrastructure
169:35 

169:35 clouds. So we're going through that
169:36 

169:36 process and pencil 9 updates which
169:39 

169:39 you're going to hear what pencil 9 is in
169:41 

169:41 a little bit. Um that's also a piece
169:44 

169:44 that has to get integrated with whatever
169:46 

169:46 our tools are at that time. And of
169:48 

169:48 course we get down into standards. You
169:50 

169:50 know, we did a lot of work into our in
169:52 

169:52 our gap analysis and talking with people
169:54 

169:54 with ODOT, learning what their processes
169:56 

169:56 and things are. And then uh another
169:58 

169:58 point that I wanted to point out here
169:60 

169:60 was our data governance and ODOT
170:03 

170:03 digital delivery program is running very
170:05 

170:05 much in parallel of what the initiative
170:08 

170:08 at the DOT is is data governance. I have
170:10 

170:10 some really great people on the IT side
170:12 

170:12 that if you ever want to know more about
170:14 

170:14 the data governance things that we're
170:16 

170:16 doing, I can get you in touch with them.
170:17 

170:17 And of course, the bottom one of this
170:19 

170:19 process is, yeah, they're all new. Um,
170:21 

170:21 and our folks are very aware of that.
170:24 

170:24 And that really gets us right right back
170:26 

170:26 into that unit human element of really
170:28 

170:28 trying to focus in on a scalable
170:31 

170:31 workforce program that we're developing
170:33 

170:33 today. Getting that early adopter
170:34 

170:34 program rolled out. We, one of our
170:36 

170:36 members of our team is big into the
170:39 

170:39 early adopter program. In fact, I
170:40 

170:40 believe he's trying to work on the next
170:42 

170:42 one, the next series in the next
170:44 

170:44 quarter. And of course, we work with ACC
170:46 

170:46 partnering on a number of different
170:48 

170:48 things. Right now, we're really focused
170:49 

170:49 in in our workspace.
170:52 

170:52 The workspace itself, uh, just spend a
170:55 

170:55 couple seconds on that. The workspace
170:57 

170:57 that we had or actually still utilizing
171:00 

171:00 today until we switched to the new one
171:02 

171:02 had to be completely rebuilt. it the
171:04 

171:04 workspace was a um well it came from
171:08 

171:08 inroads and we made it open roads and uh
171:12 

171:12 prior to inroads it was just some old
171:14 

171:14 stuff they kind of put together and I'm
171:16 

171:16 not trying to make light of it um but
171:18 

171:18 what I'm trying to convey here it went
171:20 

171:20 through different iterations of
171:22 

171:22 workspace managers and they all kind of
171:24 

171:24 had their fingerprints on it and the
171:26 

171:26 other thing to point out was that
171:28 

171:28 roadway had their things bridge had
171:30 

171:30 their things traffic had their things
171:32 

171:32 and they weren't really connected at
171:34 

171:34 So, we rebuilt the workspace from the
171:36 

171:36 ground up. Uh, and it's purposed
171:40 

171:40 built for model delivery.
171:44 

171:44 Uh, like I said, we're going to kind of
171:45 

171:45 get a little more into the technology
171:46 

171:46 today, common data environment. One of
171:49 

171:49 the big things that I focus in on this
171:51 

171:51 is uh information containers and moving
171:54 

171:54 that information through a managed
171:55 

171:55 process. I I need to reiterate over and
171:57 

171:57 over again, the CDE is not just the
172:01 

172:01 software, it's the processes as well.
172:03 

172:03 And do not skip your requirements
172:07 

172:07 gathering. at ODOT.
172:09 

172:09 This initiative, we have a business
172:12 

172:12 analyst that's assigned to this this
172:14 

172:14 initiative that's going to start working
172:16 

172:16 with the business to really understand
172:18 

172:18 their uh requirements, going to
172:21 

172:21 understand what workflows they need, and
172:22 

172:22 we're going to work on mapping that back
172:24 

172:24 into the the ISO standard and making
172:26 

172:26 sure after that the technology pairs up
172:28 

172:28 with it.
172:31 

172:31 This is an overview of just uh my stack,
172:34 

172:34 if you will, of the stack of ODOT with
172:36 

172:36 uh how the software comes together. I
172:38 

172:38 purposely left the the the product names
172:41 

172:41 off of this because I really wanted to
172:44 

172:44 show you that this could be achieved on
172:46 

172:46 either side. It could be a Bentley
172:48 

172:48 stack, it could be an Autodesk stack,
172:50 

172:50 but what we're trying to achieve here is
172:51 

172:51 both. And just like Arizona, we're a
172:54 

172:54 Bentley house. And so right there in the
172:56 

172:56 middle, the design authoring workflow,
172:57 

172:57 that is project-wise for us. And then to
172:60 

173:00 the right of it, unified experience,
173:02 

173:02 that's my infrastructure cloud. And
173:04 

173:04 we're going to kind of get into the left
173:05 

173:05 things here in a little bit, um, the CAD
173:08 

173:08 controls. And the reason why we're going
173:10 

173:10 to do that, one of the things that we
173:11 

173:11 realized very early on in our gap
173:14 

173:14 analysis was, well, you know, not
173:16 

173:16 everybody uses Bentley and most
173:18 

173:18 importantly, like out into construction
173:19 

173:19 world, they're using Autodesk.
173:22 

173:22 And we know that the CAD standard is a
173:25 

173:25 data standard now moving forward. I
173:27 

173:27 think someone may have pointed that out
173:28 

173:28 yesterday. And we believe in the same
173:30 

173:30 thing here. So we have to control that
173:32 

173:32 data standard. So we developed a way to
173:35 

173:35 be able to do that. We found some
173:37 

173:37 applications, some thirdparty
173:38 

173:38 applications to help us control that
173:40 

173:40 standard. And then off to the right, oh
173:43 

173:43 I know I'm dancing around a little bit,
173:45 

173:45 but off to the right you see kind of our
173:46 

173:46 basic tool set and our integration
173:48 

173:48 pieces. Um, we are going through, we're
173:52 

173:52 actively looking at investigating
173:53 

173:53 things, piloting things, and that's what
173:56 

173:56 we're trying to show there. Uh, we've
173:57 

173:57 had some good success piloting the
173:59 

173:59 viewer. Um, Katie also has not only just
174:02 

174:02 digital delivery, but she also has QAQC
174:05 

174:05 in her group, uh, which is great for us
174:07 

174:07 because, uh, they can get into the model
174:09 

174:09 and, uh, we're about to start our QAQC,
174:13 

174:13 uh, guideline stuff with them in phase
174:15 

174:15 two coming up soon. So, some really cool
174:17 

174:17 stuff coming out of that. And of course
174:18 

174:18 our integration we we have piloted and
174:20 

174:20 had great success with our geo
174:21 

174:21 geographical our GIS group bringing in
174:24 

174:24 data and overlaying on the model. And uh
174:27 

174:27 there's some other things there that
174:28 

174:28 we're trying to investigate.
174:32 

174:32 This is a big one. This is one of our
174:33 

174:33 most recent developments that we're
174:35 

174:35 working on right now. Actually, we have
174:37 

174:37 some updates on that just of today. So
174:40 

174:40 what we're going to do here is we're
174:42 

174:42 going to get GitHub. And so GitHub is
174:45 

174:45 going to be our spot for all of our open
174:48 

174:48 shared resources. So
174:51 

174:51 the ISO talks about shared resources. We
174:53 

174:53 want to make sure these are all open
174:55 

174:55 sourced. So when we start talking about
174:57 

174:57 our our our document templates, we're
174:58 

174:58 talking about guidelines, any standards
175:01 

175:01 that we produce. Then of course our CAD
175:03 

175:03 standards, we want to make sure that's
175:05 

175:05 out there. You can look at it. And we
175:07 

175:07 like to GitHub for a few reasons. One,
175:09 

175:09 uh it had that repository compared. So
175:12 

175:12 if I'm making changes to documents, I'm
175:13 

175:13 making changes to code, if I'm making
175:15 

175:15 changes to anything, anyone who's
175:17 

175:17 familiar with that system knows that um
175:21 

175:21 it's it's it's really big on be able to
175:24 

175:24 to manage that standard. Of course, you
175:26 

175:26 get you pick up your versioning and your
175:27 

175:27 audit trail and then of course it's SSO
175:30 

175:30 enterprise, so that makes all my
175:31 

175:31 security folks happy. But what we
175:33 

175:33 discovered in this whole process is the
175:35 

175:35 automation. So I can store my standards
175:37 

175:37 over there and through a gated workflow
175:40 

175:40 approval process and authorization
175:42 

175:42 process once those steps are completed
175:46 

175:46 the workflow kicks off packages up the
175:48 

175:48 workspace and shoots it off into my
175:50 

175:50 Azure where Pencil 9 is watching for
175:53 

175:53 that that change and once it sees that
175:55 

175:55 change it sends it to my CAD machines
175:57 

175:57 automatically.
176:03 

176:03 to get a little more into the alignment.
176:04 

176:04 I I pulled out some things that were
176:07 

176:07 interesting. U I I call it framework
176:10 

176:10 elements. I'm I'm sure Paul could
176:12 

176:12 correct me on that. Uh but I'm this is
176:14 

176:14 what I like to call this is framework
176:15 

176:15 elements. And just looking at those
176:16 

176:16 information states, how we're going to
176:18 

176:18 do do this. And one of the things that
176:20 

176:20 stood out to me was trying to separate
176:22 

176:22 the security and the suitability code.
176:24 

176:24 It's like it's the who and the why. Like
176:27 

176:27 who has access to this and what can I
176:28 

176:28 use it for? Um, another thing was really
176:32 

176:32 understanding the control access like
176:36 

176:36 in in in Oklahoma and I think Arizona
176:38 

176:38 was the same way was we don't
176:40 

176:40 necessarily want consultants to be able
176:42 

176:42 to see other consultants work but if you
176:44 

176:44 work in for the DOT I need you to see
176:46 

176:46 all the work areas but we're also
176:49 

176:49 shifting this into a role based access
176:51 

176:51 per project set is set up by the
176:53 

176:53 information manager and the model
176:54 

176:54 manager. But we're going to get into
176:55 

176:55 that a little bit how we're going to
176:56 

176:56 achieve that through some automation
176:59 

176:59 wizardry I like to say sometimes. And of
177:01 

177:01 course we have our information container
177:03 

177:03 or our naming convention as well. We're
177:05 

177:05 going to get into that too.
177:08 

177:08 Naming convention. We got one of those.
177:12 

177:12 So it's it's kind of like what you saw
177:14 

177:14 from Arizona. Uh it's very much the same
177:16 

177:16 the first two. You know you got your
177:18 

177:18 project ID, you got your originator and
177:20 

177:20 your discipline. Uh, one of the things
177:22 

177:22 we did adapt in our spatial code that
177:24 

177:24 where you see the AL01, we made it a two
177:27 

177:27 to five character limit because we felt
177:29 

177:29 like it was important to capture that
177:31 

177:31 five-digit NBI number. So that way we
177:34 

177:34 can immediately find information and for
177:36 

177:36 the handover for assets on the bridge
177:39 

177:39 side. Getting into types, uh, there's
177:42 

177:42 we, man, I think we have a whole bunch
177:44 

177:44 of different types of things that we can
177:45 

177:45 do and of course the spatial codes, but
177:48 

177:48 I wanted to talk about the number here.
177:50 

177:50 So the number and in and projectwise and
177:52 

177:52 the and I think your CDEs your most
177:55 

177:55 common CDs do the same thing your
177:57 

177:57 sequent sequential number and that's is
177:59 

177:59 important because the possibility you
178:01 

178:01 having another named file like this is
178:03 

178:03 high you don't want to squish those you
178:06 

178:06 don't want to stomp on those things so
178:07 

178:07 what happens in the CDE it assigns that
178:09 

178:09 sequential number so that'll never
178:11 

178:11 happen
178:16 

178:16 it's so important to have consistency so
178:19 

178:19 I I tried to I think everyone can relate
178:22 

178:22 to this. I think we all have different
178:24 

178:24 files that we call Mike's final road
178:26 

178:26 plan.
178:27 

178:27 We're going to prohibit that. Every just
178:30 

178:30 like uh what Arizona said, it doesn't
178:32 

178:32 matter what domain or discipline or
178:34 

178:34 where you are working in our system, you
178:36 

178:36 will be forced to use the naming
178:38 

178:38 convention moving forward because we
178:40 

178:40 can't have the data the swamp of that
178:43 

178:43 that data. And it says data swamp. It's
178:46 

178:46 supposed to say data swamp.
178:49 

178:49 um I get graphically inclined. and I
178:51 

178:51 start making stuff and I miss words but
178:54 

178:54 data swamp we don't want it and how we
178:57 

178:57 can achieve not doing that is enforcing
178:60 

178:60 that naming convention and how we're
179:01 

179:01 going to do that is through the project
179:02 

179:02 wise advance wizard uh and through that
179:05 

179:05 wizard allows us to you know the code
179:08 

179:08 may be road but it's it's going to show
179:10 

179:10 us roadway the code may be M3 or the
179:13 

179:13 type may be M3 which stands for 3D model
179:15 

179:15 but it's also going to show you 3D model
179:17 

179:17 eventually hope people start learning
179:19 

179:19 them but the way this works is it also
179:22 

179:22 allows you to see what the the human
179:24 

179:24 readable name is as and the machine
179:27 

179:27 readable name at the same time. And
179:29 

179:29 eventually what it does is it creates
179:31 

179:31 that long name that
179:34 

179:34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Oro AL1 M3001
179:43 

179:43 we are going to have the gated
179:44 

179:44 workflows.
179:46 

179:46 So what we have to do and what the
179:48 

179:48 guidance is telling us is uh must enable
179:51 

179:51 the control transitions between the
179:52 

179:52 states. So how we're going to do that is
179:55 

179:55 uh through suitability and status or
179:57 

179:57 through excuse me through the states.
179:59 

179:59 The state change will automatically
180:02 

180:02 change the um security uh but that's
180:05 

180:05 also going to be all based on the
180:07 

180:07 suitability codes
180:13 

180:13 metadata integration. What I really
180:15 

180:15 wanted to convey here is it's about the
180:17 

180:17 metadata. the metadata moves beyond the
180:19 

180:19 file name and we we want to be able to
180:22 

180:22 move this information through the life
180:23 

180:23 cycle of that asset eventually get it
180:25 

180:25 into Trisha's world to where she can
180:28 

180:28 utilize it and but we also have to
180:30 

180:30 there's some we also have to track its
180:33 

180:33 changes along the way and um there's
180:36 

180:36 this thing called Podes and Codes and I
180:39 

180:39 this was a new concept to me uh P stands
180:41 

180:41 for preliminary C stands for contractual
180:44 

180:44 and um anything that's not authorized
180:48 

180:48 for final use construction. All those we
180:51 

180:51 call them here in in Oklahoma changes.
180:53 

180:53 They're not revisions. It would be P. Um
180:57 

180:57 once you let the project, once that
180:59 

180:59 document, that model or whatever you're
181:01 

181:01 working with becomes
181:04 

181:04 authorized or becomes the contract, it
181:06 

181:06 switches to a C and it starts the
181:08 

181:08 process over again. So what you end up
181:10 

181:10 getting is you get the history of that
181:11 

181:11 documents through its preliminary
181:13 

181:13 stages, all of its changes, all its
181:14 

181:14 revisions through the preliminary side
181:16 

181:16 and all of its changes and revisions
181:18 

181:18 through the contractual side as well.
181:23 

181:23 Controlled access um again just kind of
181:26 

181:26 like what Arizona was talking about role
181:28 

181:28 based access we're doing very much the
181:29 

181:29 same. Um, we're slimming it down to uh
181:33 

181:33 just viewer, author, checker, appri
181:35 

181:35 approver, and authorizer. Uh,
181:37 

181:37 information manager. We're going to get
181:39 

181:39 into that just a little bit more over
181:40 

181:40 into the next slides, but that's an
181:42 

181:42 important one when we get into the
181:44 

181:44 automation. But to focus in what you're
181:46 

181:46 seeing here is there are specific places
181:49 

181:49 in the system that we have to make sure
181:52 

181:52 that those containers of information are
181:55 

181:55 restricted. for example, right away, and
181:58 

181:58 this is the one I always like to use, is
182:00 

182:00 you may end up having some PII on there
182:03 

182:03 depending on what those deeds look like
182:04 

182:04 or what that information about that
182:06 

182:06 person looks like. So, we want to make
182:08 

182:08 sure that we're restricting that
182:09 

182:09 information where it needs to be
182:11 

182:11 restricted and open where it needs to be
182:13 

182:13 open as readon. And I threw some some um
182:17 

182:17 of those roles over there so you kind of
182:20 

182:20 see what they would look like. And how
182:22 

182:22 we're setting that up is the ID uh by
182:24 

182:24 the domain of the data like say design
182:26 

182:26 or or construction or whatever and then
182:29 

182:29 the role. So like for example in design
182:32 

182:32 you might see that that ID the D stands
182:34 

182:34 for design and are you approver are you
182:36 

182:36 an author and we we put folks in there
182:38 

182:38 that way.
182:44 

182:44 Automating our project w or our project
182:46 

182:46 provisioning. This one's a fun one. So
182:48 

182:48 what we're working on now is we're
182:50 

182:50 shifting away from if you need a work
182:52 

182:52 area in project wise you have to contact
182:54 

182:54 the project wise administrator to do it.
182:56 

182:56 What we're trying to move into is having
182:59 

182:59 that information management function
183:01 

183:01 which is described in the standards
183:03 

183:03 moved to the design team trying to get
183:05 

183:05 into that model management area or model
183:08 

183:08 manager or BIM manager. Um but it's
183:11 

183:11 really supporting that information
183:13 

183:13 management function. So what we what we
183:15 

183:15 are going what we're building out now is
183:17 

183:17 a web portal to where that information
183:20 

183:20 manager can go there and create their
183:23 

183:23 work area. It fires off a series of
183:25 

183:25 commandletits. That's kind of the magic
183:27 

183:27 behind the scenes and goes and creates
183:29 

183:29 that work area and then that information
183:32 

183:32 manager through uh the execution plans,
183:35 

183:35 the racy charts, the uh model
183:38 

183:38 progression, all that stuff
183:42 

183:42 puts the people in the groups where they
183:43 

183:43 need to be. Again, it's kind of like
183:45 

183:45 what Arizona is saying, you know, making
183:47 

183:47 sure the information for that person,
183:49 

183:49 they have it when they need it so they
183:51 

183:51 can make the decisions.
183:56 

183:56 This is our folder structure. Uh again,
183:58 

183:58 this is uh what what time is it? It's
184:01 

184:01 11:04. This could change by 11:08. But
184:05 

184:05 this is kind of what we're looking at
184:06 

184:06 today. What we really focused in on
184:08 

184:08 again through like data governance and
184:10 

184:10 through the standards, we really wanted
184:11 

184:11 to show relation of the data back to the
184:14 

184:14 domain and to the container of that
184:17 

184:17 information. So for example that top
184:19 

184:19 level folder 02 design that's my domain
184:23 

184:23 of data my container information might
184:26 

184:26 be the existing conditions or say the
184:28 

184:28 design model.
184:30 

184:30 What you don't see here is bridge
184:32 

184:32 traffic road they're not there. They're
184:36 

184:36 just living a design model. And in fact
184:38 

184:38 this is all the folders that we plan to
184:40 

184:40 have. Everything else is going to be
184:42 

184:42 metadata.
184:45 

184:45 And if you ask me does this scare me?
184:47 

184:47 Yeah, that scares the heck out of me.
184:49 

184:49 But um that kind of gets me into the
184:51 

184:51 testing area.
184:53 

184:53 We we've done some testing on this on a
184:56 

184:56 few different pro pilot projects that we
184:58 

184:58 have internally. We've now started to
184:60 

184:60 kind of start testing it into the ACC
185:02 

185:02 world and so far we've had
185:07 

185:07 I don't think we've got anything I don't
185:09 

185:09 think we've got negative comments,
185:10 

185:10 Katie. I think we've got everything's
185:12 

185:12 been pretty positive so far. It is
185:14 

185:14 different, you know, when you start
185:15 

185:15 working with the naming conventions, but
185:16 

185:16 what you pick up is the ability to use
185:19 

185:19 your metadata to find the information
185:21 

185:21 you're looking for. And that once the
185:24 

185:24 the folks see that, they don't really
185:26 

185:26 want to go back to the old way of doing
185:28 

185:28 it.
185:33 

185:33 Save searches. So um most modern uh CDE
185:39 

185:39 whether it be ACC whether it be project
185:41 

185:41 wise you have the ability to create
185:43 

185:43 searches and that's how you can start
185:45 

185:45 bring start bringing some of this data
185:47 

185:47 back together uh with it if it's
185:49 

185:49 separated somewhere if it's fragmented
185:51 

185:51 is the technical word and uh so through
185:54 

185:54 that information manager what we want to
185:55 

185:55 be able to do is set up the global
185:58 

185:58 searches in a way to find certain things
186:01 

186:01 based upon suitabilities based on states
186:04 

186:04 based bas on different types of
186:05 

186:05 disciplines and those will just they're
186:07 

186:07 just standard once the once the work
186:09 

186:09 area is built they'll be there one of
186:12 

186:12 the things that uh at least just to
186:14 

186:14 point something out on project wise not
186:16 

186:16 throwing shade or anything is one of the
186:17 

186:17 things that I can't do from an admin
186:20 

186:20 information management perspective is I
186:21 

186:21 can't go create views for a specific
186:24 

186:24 person or specific uh function uh so
186:29 

186:29 that's kind of a problem we got to kind
186:30 

186:30 of work through that uh but at least for
186:33 

186:33 the global searches We can do this. We
186:34 

186:34 can bring the data back together. Uh so
186:37 

186:37 everybody can see it.
186:40 

186:40 One of the last things I want to leave
186:42 

186:42 you guys with is test, test, adapt, test
186:45 

186:45 again, test again. Um and just like uh
186:49 

186:49 Mike in Arizona was saying, change
186:52 

186:52 control, change management. The human
186:54 

186:54 element is such such an important piece
186:57 

186:57 in this. And just really getting their
186:59 

186:59 feedback. and it's not making or making
187:02 

187:02 sure it's not something that you're
187:03 

187:03 saying it is you have to do these things
187:06 

187:06 like bring them part bring them into the
187:09 

187:09 discussion. Um we're seeing some good
187:12 

187:12 success by going that route versus just
187:14 

187:14 saying here here to do the thing
187:18 

187:18 and of course thank you guys. Um I do
187:21 

187:21 want to do a selfless plug. Uh I think
187:24 

187:24 Katie's somewhere in the off or in
187:25 

187:25 somewhere in the office. She is not in
187:26 

187:26 the office. She's there with you guys.
187:28 

187:28 But Katie, is there an opportunity where
187:30 

187:30 I know we were talking about AD cements,
187:33 

187:33 the NOFO that was out, do you think
187:36 

187:36 Oklahoma would partner with other states
187:39 

187:39 that want to do an ADCMS submitt
187:42 

187:42 for 19650 stuff?
187:46 

187:46 >> AB: Absolutely, Mike. We would love to
187:48 

187:48 partner with any states who are
187:50 

187:50 interested in doing this. Um, I I will
187:53 

187:53 say I I feel like Mike made this sound
187:58 

187:58 so easy for us. It really was not. This
188:01 

188:01 is totally different for us. This is a
188:03 

188:03 very data centric way of thinking about
188:06 

188:06 your information now. And we really had
188:10 

188:10 to stretch ourselves to go this
188:14 

188:14 direction. It was not natural coming
188:17 

188:17 from a world of paper.
188:28 

188:28 Definitely not natural. Uh I would say a
188:31 

188:31 little bit difference from Arizona and
188:32 

188:32 where Oklahoma is or was is we we have
188:36 

188:36 had Project Wise since 2014 and our
188:39 

188:39 Project Wise has been running since
188:41 

188:41 then, but it was also developed to
188:42 

188:42 deliver paper. We did a really good job
188:45 

188:45 at
188:47 

188:47 well repeating processes, deliverables,
188:50 

188:50 paper in a digital format. We really
188:52 

188:52 didn't change anything. All the
188:53 

188:53 workflows were the same. So what we're
188:56 

188:56 putting in place today really does
188:57 

188:57 change all the processes, how you name
189:01 

189:01 things. It is a big difference from what
189:03 

189:03 it used to be.
189:06 

189:06 >> Hey Michael, this is uh Rackley Ren with
189:08 

189:08 the National Institute of Building
189:09 

189:09 Sciences. I have a question about the um
189:11 

189:11 your slide for the execution. So it says
189:14 

189:14 that you have you know fixed taxonomy.
189:16 

189:16 So users are prohibited from creating
189:18 

189:18 custom folders to prevent unpredictable
189:20 

189:20 data paths. Uh so what happens when they
189:23 

189:23 come across a file type or or some some
189:25 

189:25 deliverable or something that doesn't
189:26 

189:26 exactly fit in the folder structure that
189:29 

189:29 has been you know because things happen
189:31 

189:31 right um is there a specific folder
189:34 

189:34 there for you know like kind of like a
189:36 

189:36 like a kitchen drawer where you kind of
189:37 

189:37 throw it in there and add as many
189:39 

189:39 metadata tags as possible so that it's
189:41 

189:41 still searchable or do you uh revise the
189:44 

189:44 folder structure or or or what do you
189:46 

189:46 think the process would be for something
189:47 

189:47 like that?
189:49 

189:49 >> Wonderful question. So what we want to
189:51 

189:51 steer away from completely is revising
189:53 

189:53 the folder structures that opens up a
189:54 

189:54 whole other set of worms. I think when
189:56 

189:56 we start thinking about information
189:57 

189:57 management, I think we can understand
189:58 

189:58 that
190:00 

190:00 kitchen sink or the garbage fan,
190:03 

190:03 whatever you want to call it, right? I
190:04 

190:04 think we I think ours is called the
190:06 

190:06 correspondence folder and that is our
190:07 

190:07 kitchen sink. That's the old way of
190:09 

190:09 doing it. Um, man, I found some really
190:12 

190:12 funny documents in there. Like I don't
190:14 

190:14 even know why that's there. But uh it is
190:17 

190:17 a concern and that's why I think it if I
190:20 

190:20 know I flashed through it but the folder
190:22 

190:22 structure had the documents I think it
190:23 

190:23 was like um 99 documents
190:27 

190:27 and also you would be able to use that
190:31 

190:31 uh but the the the
190:34 

190:34 codes naming convention also allows you
190:36 

190:36 to use Z's if you don't have something
190:39 

190:39 today and I would then probably have
190:41 

190:41 them work with our team to develop that
190:44 

190:44 type and project-wise is our product. So
190:48 

190:48 that's what I'm going to talk about. It
190:49 

190:49 makes it easy for us to go add that
190:51 

190:51 type. And once I add that type in there,
190:53 

190:53 everybody has it. So if you have to put
190:56 

190:56 the content in there to get things
190:58 

190:58 moving, you can. But the problem with
190:60 

191:00 that, I would also argue, is you can't
191:02 

191:02 change the name once you made it,
191:05 

191:05 especially if you're modeling with it.
191:06 

191:06 Now, if it's a document, whatever. You
191:09 

191:09 know, it's not a big deal. But this is
191:11 

191:11 modeling content and you expect to
191:13 

191:13 change the name, you're probably going
191:14 

191:14 to break things. So,
191:17 

191:17 I would suggest working with our team to
191:19 

191:19 figure out what's that type's going to
191:20 

191:20 be. If we don't have it included, uh, as
191:22 

191:22 we were kind of going through this
191:24 

191:24 process, there was a few times that I
191:26 

191:26 bounced into our our team and let's run
191:28 

191:28 through some pilots. I'm like, man, what
191:30 

191:30 would we call a corridor? What what is a
191:33 

191:33 what what do we call a corridor file? Is
191:35 

191:35 it CR? Is it CRD? What what are we going
191:37 

191:37 to call it? So, it's it's trying to
191:39 

191:39 figure out what the other states are
191:41 

191:41 doing, what the folks in the UK are
191:42 

191:42 doing, and what does it mean for
191:44 

191:44 Oklahoma. And I think this is why we're
191:46 

191:46 here is trying to develop that standard
191:50 

191:50 list of type standard list of special
191:52 

191:52 code, standard list of whatever because
191:53 

191:53 once we're able to do that, that
191:55 

191:55 information just walks across.
191:58 

191:58 Did I answer your question?
192:01 

192:01 >> Outstanding. Thanks, buddy.
192:02 

192:02 >> Two thumbs up, Michael. Uh, we've got a
192:05 

192:05 question in the back there. Can somebody
192:07 

192:07 take a microphone?
192:17 

192:17 >> Thank you. Um Nicole Hansen from ITD. Um
192:21 

192:21 we have Project Wise as well and I'm
192:22 

192:22 just wondering do you find the way that
192:24 

192:24 you have it set up now that it's easier
192:26 

192:26 to search for those who are not as
192:29 

192:29 familiar with Project Wise but they need
192:31 

192:31 to get something from it?
192:36 

192:36 when you say now like the like literally
192:38 

192:38 how it's set up now before I build the
192:40 

192:40 new one.
192:42 

192:42 >> Um I mean like so for myself I work in
192:46 

192:46 the GIS realm and I have to go get CAD
192:48 

192:48 files.
192:49 

192:49 >> Oh yeah.
192:49 

192:49 >> And I didn't know how to search it for
192:51 

192:51 one but I would search words that I
192:53 

192:53 thought would good key words.
192:56 

192:56 And it wasn't until I started talking
192:58 

192:58 more and more with our CAD and
193:01 

193:01 engineers, finding out that what I
193:03 

193:03 thought was the right word was not. So,
193:06 

193:06 I'm just wondering if it's if you're
193:07 

193:07 finding that with the way that you have
193:09 

193:09 it set up now, that format, if that's
193:12 

193:12 easier for those like me who are less
193:15 

193:15 familiar that we're going to be able to
193:17 

193:17 grab the right stuff.
193:20 

193:20 >> Okay. So, that's a great question. And I
193:22 

193:22 can address that very specifically
193:23 

193:23 because so we worked with GIS on the
193:26 

193:26 exact UK use case you're talking about.
193:29 

193:29 GIS does not speak design. Design does
193:32 

193:32 not speak GIS just like I see Trisha
193:34 

193:34 right there in the middle. I don't speak
193:36 

193:36 asset management. She helps me a lot on
193:37 

193:37 that in that side of the world. I don't
193:39 

193:39 speak it. Um so when it comes to GIS
193:42 

193:42 when when we work through that they have
193:44 

193:44 that route ID. They speak in in terms of
193:48 

193:48 route ID. That's how they find things.
193:49 

193:49 That red ID is our our section. It's a
193:52 

193:52 county and that's what builds that
193:55 

193:55 thing. And what we were going what we're
193:58 

193:58 going to test, we haven't been able to
193:59 

193:59 test it fully yet, but it's been
194:02 

194:02 at least visualized that we're going to
194:05 

194:05 be kicking out some GIS files from our
194:07 

194:07 CAD and we're going to name it a certain
194:09 

194:09 way that they can go find it. And in
194:12 

194:12 fact, because we're going to name it
194:13 

194:13 that way, we have that convention that's
194:15 

194:15 going to be part of those safe searches
194:16 

194:16 I was telling you about before. All they
194:18 

194:18 would have to do is go to the work area
194:20 

194:20 and go right to that search and all
194:22 

194:22 their GIS files, if you will, will just
194:24 

194:24 pop up. It'll populate. They'll be
194:26 

194:26 there. They don't have to think about
194:27 

194:27 it. But it's even bigger than that. When
194:29 

194:29 we get to the point where we can start
194:31 

194:31 publishing this stuff, and we are, the
194:34 

194:34 dream is just for them just to pull it
194:35 

194:35 out automat automatically should not
194:38 

194:38 even have to go into project wise and
194:41 

194:41 retrieve it because we made the naming
194:43 

194:43 convention machine and human readable.
194:47 

194:47 That's the magic
194:49 

194:49 and when and I would say it doesn't
194:51 

194:51 matter the stack right if you're talking
194:54 

194:54 CDE you're talking about AC or ACC
194:57 

194:57 almost said ACC AC accwise
195:00 

195:00 you're talking infrastructure cloud the
195:02 

195:02 data is there and that's why we have
195:04 

195:04 once we get to this naming convention
195:05 

195:05 concept
195:07 

195:07 it's machine and human readable
195:13 

195:13 >> that's good point
195:15 

195:15 >> hey Mike uh I'm Sorry. Go ahead.
195:17 

195:17 >> Yeah, go ahead Terry and then we'll go
195:19 

195:19 to Trish.
195:20 

195:20 >> Uh, hi Mike. Terry Klein from Infoch.
195:22 

195:22 Um, this is the first time I've seen it
195:24 

195:24 laid out in PowerPoint form. So, you
195:26 

195:26 know, great job. Um, my question is the
195:29 

195:29 this whole new environment, you know,
195:31 

195:31 roles, web portals, file naming,
195:34 

195:34 schemas, all that stuff. Is it in uh
195:37 

195:37 full production on all new projects or
195:39 

195:39 is it still being defined? Is it being
195:41 

195:41 rolled out on certain sized projects?
195:43 

195:43 what what's the status of it as a as a
195:46 

195:46 new way of working?
195:48 

195:48 >> Uh the status is test and break it. Uh
195:51 

195:51 so we are uh that's where we are. We
195:54 

195:54 it's not rolled out on uh full projects
195:57 

195:57 right now. We we are trying to on real
196:00 

196:00 projects and we're trying it on fake
196:02 

196:02 projects at the same time. Um the web
196:05 

196:05 interface is part of that automation. It
196:07 

196:07 has not been fully built out because we
196:09 

196:09 have to get our servers upgraded uh on
196:11 

196:11 the on the project wise end. So that
196:13 

196:13 that's incoming. So I hope
196:17 

196:17 I'm hoping by maybe the next ADCMS
196:20 

196:20 exchange I might be able to show some
196:22 

196:22 things off.
196:24 

196:24 No promises.
196:27 

196:27 >> I just wanted to say that you guys are
196:29 

196:29 doing amazing work in Oklahoma. Um
196:31 

196:31 really setting the stage for
196:33 

196:33 interoperability and so I appreciate
196:36 

196:36 that. And Mike, you do make it sound so
196:38 

196:38 simple, but I know you guys are like
196:40 

196:40 juggling constantly to try to get this
196:43 

196:43 to work. And I want to go back to
196:45 

196:45 Minnesota and say, what are we doing
196:48 

196:48 exactly? You know, because utilizing
196:50 

196:50 like GitHub, that's very interesting to
196:52 

196:52 me like how you're going in and sharing
196:54 

196:54 that information with GitHub. And so I
196:56 

196:56 was asking Allan questions and he was
196:58 

196:58 helping answer Mike while you were
196:60 

196:60 presenting. But I think are other states
197:03 

197:03 doing it this way.
197:07 

197:07 Are you the first?
197:08 

197:08 >> I don't know of a state that's utilized
197:10 

197:10 GitHub in the position that I'm trying
197:12 

197:12 to use it.
197:14 

197:14 Uh
197:16 

197:16 I know other states have utilized
197:18 

197:18 different methods to track their
197:20 

197:20 standards, whether it be a SharePoint,
197:21 

197:21 whether it be an FTP server. Um most
197:25 

197:25 states that I have seen, they'll and
197:27 

197:27 ours right now technically. So if you go
197:29 

197:29 to r o.digitaly.com digital.com.
197:31 

197:31 Selfless plug for our website, of
197:32 

197:32 course. If you go to our website, you'll
197:34 

197:34 find some of our guidelines. You you'll
197:36 

197:36 find um I misspoke. Our guidelines
197:40 

197:40 aren't out there, right, Katie? But our
197:42 

197:42 gap analysis is
197:44 

197:44 so you but that's that's where we're
197:46 

197:46 sharing that stuff, but you don't really
197:47 

197:47 know when I've updated it. You don't
197:49 

197:49 really know what changed when I updated
197:51 

197:51 it. And that's being the the kind of
197:54 

197:54 tech nerd that I am, I knew GitHub
197:57 

197:57 existed. So we started playing with it
197:59 

197:59 and all of a sudden things just started
198:01 

198:01 falling into place. And then what I
198:03 

198:03 realized in Oklahoma through our data
198:05 

198:05 governance initiative, we already had
198:07 

198:07 GitHub and we already have Azure and
198:10 

198:10 they talk.
198:12 

198:12 They're already integrated. So it's a
198:14 

198:14 very small lift for us to get to where
198:18 

198:18 we can automate that that standard
198:20 

198:20 approach.
198:28 

198:28 um git github is used by um building
198:31 

198:31 smart for for version control and
198:34 

198:34 management of the u building smart suite
198:37 

198:37 of standards and other organizations use
198:39 

198:39 it as well. So it has some application
198:43 

198:43 there. I think um another kind of
198:46 

198:46 related point is that um there is a
198:50 

198:50 federal highway project regarding a
198:52 

198:52 centralized BIM transportation library
198:55 

198:55 that has within it the idea of a
198:58 

198:58 collective way to manage different
199:00 

199:00 artifacts that are generated by states
199:03 

199:03 or a framework not actually doing it but
199:06 

199:06 having a common way to do it. Um, GitHub
199:09 

199:09 could be a component of that or there's
199:11 

199:11 other kinds of environments out there
199:13 

199:13 that can do that. Um, the uh do
199:17 

199:17 department of transportation has
199:18 

199:18 something called the um uh um um now I'm
199:23 

199:23 forgetting the name of it. The um common
199:26 

199:26 data envir uh no not common data
199:28 

199:28 environment but it's close to that. What
199:29 

199:29 is it Katherine? The
199:31 

199:31 >> secure data commons. Okay. Yes. So there
199:34 

199:34 are some other potential alternatives
199:37 

199:37 and um I think if there is interest this
199:40 

199:40 could be something like Katie brought up
199:43 

199:43 about where maybe a few states could get
199:45 

199:45 together and look at this and study it
199:48 

199:48 and get some kind of common things going
199:50 

199:50 there which would seem to be a good
199:53 

199:53 leverage point uh for um helping each
199:57 

199:57 other go further faster.
200:05 

200:05 Um, any other questions for for Michael?
200:10 

200:10 Um, we're going to keep going with this
200:12 

200:12 a little bit longer. I know we're, you
200:13 

200:13 know, this is where we're going to open
200:15 

200:15 up to do some discussion and
200:17 

200:17 workshopping and and we do have a few
200:19 

200:19 poll questions uh just to make sure
200:22 

200:22 you're still out there with us and uh
200:25 

200:25 can find the minty meter that would
200:27 

200:27 augment discussion. So, uh, Michael, any
200:31 

200:31 last comment you want to make or, um, we
200:34 

200:34 really appreciated you're sharing some
200:36 

200:36 of how it actually works with us and
200:38 

200:38 what it takes to make things work.
200:40 

200:40 That's interesting.
200:43 

200:43 >> Uh, no, no parting comments other than
200:46 

200:46 um,
200:48 

200:48 just be ready to adapt quickly and just
200:50 

200:50 be ready to change course because, you
200:52 

200:52 know, just listening to Arizona just uh,
200:55 

200:55 I see Devin just popped on. listening
200:57 

200:57 Devon and his webinars, I always find
200:59 

200:59 new information and um
201:03 

201:03 that gets into our orbit and that might
201:05 

201:05 make things easier for us. So, we we use
201:07 

201:07 that and then um and I think some of you
201:10 

201:10 some of you folks have seen my US map of
201:13 

201:13 little dots across across the United
201:15 

201:15 States where I Allen's I see Allan right
201:18 

201:18 there sitting next to Trish. It's uh
201:20 

201:20 mostly a lot of Utah, a lot of what's
201:22 

201:22 going on in Pennsylvania, a lot of
201:23 

201:23 what's going on in Texas, and of course
201:25 

201:25 Minnesota on the asset side. We show
201:28 

201:28 where exactly where we're pulling
201:29 

201:29 information, what we pulled from them.
201:30 

201:30 And that's what comes together for
201:32 

201:32 Oklahoma. And that's I think that's so
201:34 

201:34 important for this group is to really
201:37 

201:37 kind of it's kind of like the brain
201:39 

201:39 trust of this and really kind of open
201:41 

201:41 source some of these things and we can
201:42 

201:42 actually move this a lot faster when we
201:44 

201:44 do it.
201:46 

201:46 Michael, there's one question in the
201:48 

201:48 chat about whether or not um you had
201:51 

201:51 your uh staff trained or certified in
201:54 

201:54 ISO 19650.
201:58 

201:58 >> Yes. So, we used Operoom is the company
201:60 

201:60 that we used to do our our actual
202:02 

202:02 training for 19650 and certification.
202:07 

202:07 >> Thank you.
202:07 

202:07 >> That's Paul's company who we heard from
202:10 

202:10 earlier.
202:15 

202:15 There is a a resource out there that I
202:17 

202:17 think we might figure out how to make
202:19 

202:19 available. Federal Highway has uh
202:22 

202:22 developed a a 19650 training course too
202:26 

202:26 that could be a resource uh Katherine
202:29 

202:29 Wright that could be available to
202:31 

202:31 states. Uh uh Chess Meyer worked with uh
202:35 

202:35 Federal Highway to put that together. In
202:36 

202:36 fact, I think it was presented here at
202:38 

202:38 GIST two years ago now maybe. Yeah. So,
202:43 

202:43 we're going to look into that if it
202:45 

202:45 sounds like there's definitely need and
202:47 

202:47 potentially interest for um training on
202:51 

202:51 the helping on the people's side of
202:53 

202:53 things. So, that could be a resource to
202:55 

202:55 get out there. Um well, I think let's do
202:59 

202:59 this. We're going to kind of work
203:00 

203:00 through the questions and keep the
203:02 

203:02 discussion going. Maybe we'll put up the
203:04 

203:04 first of the mentoimeter questions that
203:08 

203:08 we have and then we've got a couple of
203:10 

203:10 uh uh other states who have said they're
203:14 

203:14 doing things and they they'd make a few
203:16 

203:16 comments. I think um Devin uh poor from
203:19 

203:19 Calrans was going to share something and
203:22 

203:22 maybe Allan uh is as well. So let's get
203:25 

203:25 this first question up because it's kind
203:26 

203:26 of a general one and then maybe we'll
203:28 

203:28 invite Devon to uh comment uh after the
203:32 

203:32 first question which will give us some
203:34 

203:34 idea of what's what people are doing
203:36 

203:36 what's going on.
203:40 

203:40 >> Um so this question is um if you have an
203:43 

203:43 information process established what is
203:46 

203:46 it based on? Are you using 19650?
203:50 

203:50 Have you done it with an in-house
203:51 

203:51 developed system? Um, have you uh uh
203:55 

203:55 used off-the-shelf software uh like we
203:59 

203:59 just saw a lot of people working with
204:01 

204:01 projectwise. So that would be an
204:03 

204:03 example. Um no no current uh process or
204:08 

204:08 u system or you're just not sure about
204:11 

204:11 what's going on. um all valid answers.
204:14 

204:14 Well, number four might be self might
204:17 

204:17 exclude the other three but other four
204:20 

204:20 but number five might exclude the other
204:22 

204:22 four. Yeah.
204:26 

204:26 So, um good. We're getting a few
204:29 

204:29 responses and I know we're uh we're
204:31 

204:31 we're also getting down to the end of
204:34 

204:34 our program so not as many people are
204:35 

204:35 available on the menty meter but getting
204:38 

204:38 some responses. Um um so offthe-shelf
204:41 

204:41 software I guess you know it is clear
204:44 

204:44 that software is a major uh requirement
204:49 

204:49 a tool that's needed for this you you
204:51 

204:51 can have a process but you need some way
204:54 

204:54 to implement it so and a lot and
204:56 

204:56 software has process incorporated into
204:59 

204:59 it but I think what we've heard about is
205:03 

205:03 what role can an can a standard play um
205:06 

205:06 and uh a consensus standard open
205:10 

205:10 standard um whatever it might be in
205:13 

205:13 helping to make the process more
205:16 

205:16 generalized so it isn't just tied to one
205:19 

205:19 software application but it can be used
205:21 

205:21 by multiple ones so um this kind of
205:25 

205:25 shows a range of things going on um
205:28 

205:28 standards being used inhouse developed
205:30 

205:30 systems I think a lot of times the
205:32 

205:32 in-house is going to plug in with the
205:35 

205:35 offtheshelf uh systems probably we saw
205:38 

205:38 saw that with what Oklahoma was doing uh
205:42 

205:42 and uh um Arizona. So, um so there's
205:48 

205:48 some responses to those questions. Uh
205:50 

205:50 Devin, did you want to um share your
205:53 

205:53 comments? Are you there? Yeah. Good.
205:57 

205:57 >> Yeah. Can everybody hear me well?
206:00 

206:00 >> Yes. Loud and clear.
206:02 

206:02 >> Okay. Um, unlike the other some of our
206:05 

206:05 other partners, uh, you're y'all are
206:07 

206:07 going to get the talking head. I don't
206:08 

206:08 have any slides, but I got some general
206:11 

206:11 updates to share with you, and I have
206:13 

206:13 to, uh, I have to acknowledge what Mr.
206:17 

206:17 Demblaker from Arizona also mentioned.
206:19 

206:19 Summer has also arrived here in
206:20 

206:20 California. It's way warmer right now
206:22 

206:22 than I think any of us are hoping for,
206:24 

206:24 and I never would have thought I would
206:25 

206:25 miss late winter, early spring uh,
206:29 

206:29 weather in Pennsylvania where I grew up.
206:31 

206:31 But uh
206:34 

206:34 it's already getting warm. Um so a few
206:38 

206:38 higher level bigger things that are
206:40 

206:40 happening here in Calrans California. Uh
206:45 

206:45 last week we just had our third annual
206:49 

206:49 um CALR and industry BIM for
206:52 

206:52 infrastructure summit. Um another great
206:54 

206:54 event with a lot of great feedback. Even
206:57 

206:57 had the opportunity to have a few of our
206:58 

206:58 DOT partners join us. and I believe a
207:01 

207:01 few of them were there in the room. Um,
207:04 

207:04 we will be posting a report um on the
207:07 

207:07 event. Our facilitating team
207:09 

207:09 facilitation team is working on that
207:11 

207:11 right now. So, I will make sure Matt and
207:14 

207:14 Roger get a link to our website where
207:17 

207:17 I'll be posted. Keep an eye out. If you
207:19 

207:19 were able to attend, thank you. Um, if
207:22 

207:22 you're interested in more, uh, you know,
207:25 

207:25 feel free to reach out. The one thing
207:26 

207:26 that we have really identified here in
207:28 

207:28 the department is the key to making this
207:31 

207:31 successful is having a good solid
207:33 

207:33 engagement and collaboration process.
207:36 

207:36 Not just around the digital stuff that
207:38 

207:38 we're doing, but how we're going to get
207:39 

207:39 there. So, we put a big emphasis into
207:41 

207:41 making sure that we've got good
207:43 

207:43 collaboration with our internal state
207:45 

207:45 stakeholders um and bringing that
207:48 

207:48 national perspective to that. Um the day
207:52 

207:52 after our two-day summit, we also held a
207:55 

207:55 um an ISO 19650 focused peer-to-peer
207:59 

207:59 exchange with a few of our DOT partners.
208:01 

208:01 Uh Montana and Texas were able to join
208:03 

208:03 us in person. We appreciate them being
208:05 

208:05 able to come not only attend the event,
208:07 

208:07 the summit event, but also be there for
208:09 

208:09 the extra day and have a focused
208:10 

208:10 conversation. also had um
208:13 

208:13 representatives from Minnesota, Iowa,
208:15 

208:15 Oregon, and Pennsylvania DOS to have a a
208:19 

208:19 very robust conversation around how ISO
208:22 

208:22 19650
208:23 

208:23 could impact or be applied within the
208:27 

208:27 states here. And I think the one general
208:29 

208:29 takeaway that we all got out of it or at
208:32 

208:32 least I know us in Calrans is you know
208:34 

208:34 ISO 19650 while it is very robust it's
208:38 

208:38 very important it's very thorough um
208:41 

208:41 being that it was developed heavily
208:43 

208:43 towards a European process and like
208:47 

208:47 international process elsewhere you know
208:49 

208:49 how we apply that to state processes
208:51 

208:51 where when you think about it us as the
208:54 

208:54 US we're still 52 independent smaller
208:58 

208:58 countries countries in some respects and
208:59 

208:59 we've all got our own local and state
209:01 

209:01 requirements. So how do we you know mix
209:04 

209:04 all that together? Uh the big thing
209:06 

209:06 we've we've come to identify is it is a
209:09 

209:09 very important framework by which we're
209:11 

209:11 going to use to kind of move forward.
209:13 

209:13 There's parts of it we're going to be
209:14 

209:14 able to adopt, but there's other parts
209:16 

209:16 of it that we definitely see we need to,
209:19 

209:19 you know, adjust, work with in groups
209:22 

209:22 like building smart or, you know, any of
209:25 

209:25 these other open uh open standards
209:28 

209:28 frameworks of how we can have
209:30 

209:30 connections between the different states
209:32 

209:32 that have slight differences. And when
209:36 

209:36 things have been established in some
209:38 

209:38 sense for data and information that goes
209:41 

209:41 back 30, 40, 50 years and it's hard to
209:43 

209:43 translate all that, how do we make sure
209:45 

209:45 that we can still keep moving forward
209:47 

209:47 and make the adjustments as necessary?
209:49 

209:49 Um, we have uh we were one of the first
209:54 

209:54 states to get an ADCMS grant. Um and we
209:60 

209:60 are close to being uh done with wrapping
210:02 

210:02 up the use of those funds. Um the one
210:05 

210:05 main effort we were doing out of that
210:07 

210:07 grant was the development of a digital
210:09 

210:09 products catalog. Um I know a few of the
210:13 

210:13 DOTs that are part of this group and
210:14 

210:14 others were very interested in that
210:17 

210:17 direction as the um the product that's
210:21 

210:21 being developed is you know used to
210:24 

210:24 establish a a schema foundation for
210:27 

210:27 right now it's for CALR digital digital
210:30 

210:30 construction ecosystem you know the
210:31 

210:31 shared it's a shared vocabulary that
210:33 

210:33 helps to define how the data is
210:35 

210:35 classified attributed and exchanged
210:37 

210:37 across multiple flat platforms such as
210:40 

210:40 Trimble Business Center, Autodesk Civil
210:42 

210:42 3, ARGIS. Those are some of the major
210:44 

210:44 players we use. We are we do use Bentley
210:48 

210:48 products in some areas, but we are
210:49 

210:49 mainly Trimble, Autodesk, and Ezrey. Um,
210:53 

210:53 and it's really kind of serving as that
210:55 

210:55 backbone for the the BIM related
210:58 

210:58 uh for backbone for BIM for
210:60 

210:60 infrastructure and enabling that
211:01 

211:01 consistent arcade of data flow from
211:03 

211:03 design into construction and preparing
211:06 

211:06 for asset management. Um along with
211:09 

211:09 that, we've got a number of efforts
211:11 

211:11 going on. We've got a two specific task
211:14 

211:14 orders with our consultant uh developing
211:18 

211:18 a more an improved and more systematic
211:22 

211:22 approach for these project information
211:23 

211:23 requirements, these asset information
211:25 

211:25 requirements, and starting to prepare
211:27 

211:27 with that ultimate end in mind. What is,
211:30 

211:30 you know, how does this all apply to the
211:32 

211:32 the bigger organizational requirements?
211:34 

211:34 Um we just uh put out our new 2026 to
211:40 

211:40 2030
211:42 

211:42 CALR BIM strategic plan. Uh we had
211:45 

211:45 developed an implementation plan back in
211:47 

211:47 21 and 22 finalized in early 23 since
211:51 

211:51 then. We've accomplished quite a bit
211:53 

211:53 within our implementation plan. And our
211:56 

211:56 initial implementation plan really
211:58 

211:58 didn't look at the bigger process. it
211:60 

211:60 was hyperfocused at just the virtual
212:02 

212:02 design to construction uh part of this.
212:04 

212:04 So we are reframing where we're going.
212:07 

212:07 We're our efforts are still primarily
212:09 

212:09 focused on the digital project delivery
212:12 

212:12 process but making sure that we're
212:14 

212:14 designing with the end in mind and
212:15 

212:15 keeping the downstream and upstream
212:18 

212:18 stakeholders and customers in mind as we
212:21 

212:21 as we develop our frameworks. um that is
212:24 

212:24 posted to our website as well if anybody
212:26 

212:26 is interested to take a look as well as
212:27 

212:27 our existing implementation plan. We've
212:30 

212:30 also just kicked off an effort where
212:31 

212:31 we're updating that implementation plan
212:33 

212:33 to be more specific in what's going to
212:35 

212:35 happen the next five years. And I
212:37 

212:37 mentioned it yesterday, we're also going
212:39 

212:39 to match that with a more specific and
212:42 

212:42 robust change management plan uh to go
212:45 

212:45 along with it. Um
212:49 

212:49 sorry, looking at my notes here. I was
212:50 

212:50 just making some jotting down some
212:53 

212:53 thoughts while we were while I was
212:54 

212:54 listening in yesterday and this morning.
212:56 

212:56 Um we currently in Calrans have 15 pilot
213:00 

213:00 projects. Four of those are in
213:02 

213:02 construction uh at this time. One is in
213:06 

213:06 the final
213:08 

213:08 uh bidding the final steps prior to
213:10 

213:10 bidding and that will be our state's
213:13 

213:13 first full and complete model as a legal
213:15 

213:15 document. No 2D deliverables that will
213:17 

213:17 be part of that. that will be a complete
213:20 

213:20 modeled element. It's a medium-sized
213:22 

213:22 project that is a pavement rehab but has
213:24 

213:24 electrical uh drainage ADA. So, you
213:27 

213:27 know, all the good things to make sure
213:29 

213:29 that you are representing what would be
213:33 

213:33 those elements that could become in
213:35 

213:35 conflict with each other and seeing how
213:37 

213:37 that is going to move forward with our
213:39 

213:39 contractors using it in the field. Um,
213:43 

213:43 there was some conversation yesterday
213:44 

213:44 about legislation. Uh, California, I
213:48 

213:48 believe, was the first state, if not the
213:50 

213:50 only state, that received some
213:51 

213:51 legislation about digital processes. The
213:54 

213:54 the legislation is AB1037. It's called
213:56 

213:56 digital construction management
213:58 

213:58 technologies here in California. But
213:60 

213:60 when you read the text, it very much
214:02 

214:02 kind of covers the virtual design and
214:04 

214:04 construction, the digital delivery, you
214:07 

214:07 know, that that portion of the bigger
214:09 

214:09 concept of BIM for infrastructure, at
214:11 

214:11 least how we've kind of seen that
214:12 

214:12 digital delivery is a portion of BIM for
214:15 

214:15 infrastructure being the bigger life
214:17 

214:17 cycle of everything. Um
214:20 

214:20 we have found that while that
214:21 

214:21 legislation was helpful in defining
214:26 

214:26 direction and putting support some
214:28 

214:28 support behind
214:30 

214:30 um
214:32 

214:32 what we are trying to do it did not
214:35 

214:35 actually come with any resources um it
214:39 

214:39 did not offer the ability it does not
214:41 

214:41 offer much room for us to be flexible as
214:44 

214:44 we are working through this and
214:45 

214:45 innovation. So while I do agree that
214:49 

214:49 legislation may be important and would
214:51 

214:51 help this, I think it needs to be very
214:53 

214:53 intentional and if this group can have
214:55 

214:55 any impact influence on AASHTO and FHWA
214:59 

214:59 that there's room for the ability to
215:02 

215:02 have flexibility and I think the bigger
215:04 

215:04 thing is to help the DOS get some direct
215:07 

215:07 funding out of it for what would the
215:11 

215:11 effort that needs to go into this. So,
215:14 

215:14 um, having experienced the fact that
215:16 

215:16 legislation has been in place for almost
215:18 

215:18 four years now, um, I'd love to be part
215:21 

215:21 of future conversations with that to
215:22 

215:22 kind of have some takeaways of the the
215:25 

215:25 the downfalls that we've seen with that
215:27 

215:27 so that if there is some national
215:28 

215:28 legislation, it maybe doesn't have uh
215:31 

215:31 the same impact. Um, outside of that,
215:34 

215:34 the big thing is in the department,
215:36 

215:36 we're still continuing to build our our
215:40 

215:40 program resources. Um at this point we
215:43 

215:43 do have 19 dedicated PIs at a
215:45 

215:45 headquarters level across the department
215:47 

215:47 across multiple divisions project
215:50 

215:50 management design construction
215:51 

215:51 engineering services. So these are all
215:53 

215:53 people within my program but I don't
215:55 

215:55 have direct uh supervision necessarily
215:57 

215:57 over them and it really is kind of a
215:59 

215:59 team of teams concept. Um and
216:04 

216:04 we're continuing to identify where we
216:06 

216:06 need those additional resources. those
216:07 

216:07 resources were kind of put in place to
216:09 

216:09 establish some initial efforts to pilot
216:11 

216:11 and get off the ground. Um scaling that
216:14 

216:14 to an organization of whatever the size
216:16 

216:16 might be. We are definitely seeing we
216:18 

216:18 need to increase to be able to support
216:20 

216:20 um the level of impact we're seeing from
216:23 

216:23 the districts. Um, for those that aren't
216:25 

216:25 aware, we are, you know, a a
216:28 

216:28 headquarters uh group with 12
216:31 

216:31 independent districts that manage their
216:33 

216:33 own portfolios and projects and um
216:35 

216:35 management of their assets. So, working
216:37 

216:37 across those groups, you know, with the
216:40 

216:40 number of uh staff we have in the
216:41 

216:41 department, you know, correlating that
216:44 

216:44 appropriately is something that we're
216:46 

216:46 still learning, but we're getting
216:48 

216:48 support to continue to grow.
216:50 

216:50 Um, Roger, I got other little things,
216:53 

216:53 but I think for the purpose of time and
216:56 

216:56 like making sure others have a chance, I
216:58 

216:58 will leave it at that unless there's any
216:60 

216:60 quick questions.
217:02 

217:02 >> Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Devin. That's a
217:04 

217:04 great overview and uh helps to show
217:06 

217:06 what's going on in your state and how it
217:08 

217:08 complements what we've heard about from
217:10 

217:10 other states.
217:12 

217:12 Um,
217:16 

217:16 if there are any questions, let us know.
217:18 

217:18 I think maybe what will simultaneously
217:20 

217:20 do is put up the next poll question, get
217:23 

217:23 some responses to it, and then if
217:25 

217:25 there's any questions for Devon, we can
217:27 

217:27 take those or um you everyone should
217:31 

217:31 know how to get in touch with Devon
217:33 

217:33 also. And uh we'll uh but we'll we'll
217:36 

217:36 keep um our dialogue going a little bit
217:39 

217:39 more here. Um while this when this
217:41 

217:41 question finishes up I don't I know I
217:44 

217:44 had asked Allan if you wanted to share a
217:47 

217:47 little bit about what you guys have
217:49 

217:49 going but um not necessarily you don't
217:52 

217:52 necessarily have to do anything. Uh say
217:55 

217:55 basically it's going to be ditto exactly
217:57 

217:57 what you're hearing from these guys. I
217:58 

217:58 mean we're following you know really
218:00 

218:00 straight along with that. I mean we do
218:03 

218:03 talk you know Devin you know Mike
218:05 

218:05 Michael we all we all talk. So, you
218:08 

218:08 know, great, you know, we're all working
218:11 

218:11 towards that, you know, file structure
218:13 

218:13 and for, you know, and the file naming
218:15 

218:15 and everything like that. So,
218:17 

218:17 >> following right along uh with that. So,
218:21 

218:21 >> you know,
218:22 

218:22 >> so you see a lot of parallels between
218:24 

218:24 what what Arizona and Oklahoma have
218:26 

218:26 shared and what CALR is doing with what
218:29 

218:29 PENDOT has going on. Yeah. Yeah. That's
218:32 

218:32 that's great to hear. And at le and it's
218:34 

218:34 good to know that communication is going
218:37 

218:37 there. I think you guys are maybe
218:40 

218:40 leading efforts and you know getting
218:42 

218:42 that spread out more and more will be uh
218:45 

218:45 helpful to others I think. Um this
218:48 

218:48 question
218:49 

218:49 >> Roger
218:50 

218:50 >> sorry Roger real quick. So um one other
218:53 

218:53 thing just because the questions based I
218:55 

218:55 forgot to mention because I do have to
218:57 

218:57 leave here and go to our uh California
218:60 

218:60 Transportation Commission meeting for
219:01 

219:01 the rest of the day. Um, I'll put my
219:03 

219:03 email in the chat and our website so
219:06 

219:06 those can get it. And Roger, Matt, maybe
219:08 

219:08 you can make sure everybody gets a gets
219:09 

219:09 that as well. I'm happy to answer
219:11 

219:11 questions offline. Um, we are
219:15 

219:15 deep into our own IT project right now
219:17 

219:17 to establish our common data
219:19 

219:19 environment. For the past three years,
219:20 

219:20 we've been doing some piloting and
219:21 

219:21 testing, but we are now done with that
219:25 

219:25 phase and working through our internal
219:27 

219:27 process to get something identified. So
219:28 

219:28 that was another point that I forgot to
219:31 

219:31 put in my notes that I wanted to make
219:32 

219:32 sure I mention and we'll be happy to
219:34 

219:34 share more as we finalize that in the
219:36 

219:36 future.
219:37 

219:37 >> Oh, that's great. Thanks, Deon. And I
219:39 

219:39 think this question shows that a lot of
219:41 

219:41 people are working on the common data
219:44 

219:44 environment. Maybe that is sort of the
219:46 

219:46 first place you go, especially because
219:48 

219:48 it's driven by an application
219:50 

219:50 environment quite often. And I know this
219:53 

219:53 question made a distinction between the
219:55 

219:55 standard and the technology. I think
219:58 

219:58 they do come together hopefully more and
220:00 

220:00 more uh as the implementations are
220:03 

220:03 maturing and as people I think are
220:06 

220:06 pushing for the standard more but I
220:08 

220:08 think it is still something that you
220:10 

220:10 have to push for to get and keep the
220:13 

220:13 focus on getting standards to organize
220:17 

220:17 it and try to get away from the
220:19 

220:19 proprietary structure and schema as much
220:23 

220:23 as possible where you can that comes
220:25 

220:25 with the application.
220:27 

220:27 Even though there's a lot of benefits
220:28 

220:28 from just having the application and
220:30 

220:30 using it, moving towards the standard
220:33 

220:33 will be good for all of us in the longer
220:36 

220:36 run. Um standard approach to um model
220:41 

220:41 product modeling and process management.
220:44 

220:44 Uh so good good to see activity here
220:47 

220:47 with the uh standard environments. any
220:51 

220:51 comments on this uh other than what
220:53 

220:53 Devin had to say about the CDE.
221:05 

221:05 Well, I'm not seeing anything. Um, so
221:10 

221:10 let's try our next question, Rackley,
221:12 

221:12 and see what it brings up for people.
221:19 

221:19 If you're not developing Oh, wait. That
221:21 

221:21 question is not I think we didn't get
221:23 

221:23 the update that skip that question. It
221:25 

221:25 was it was one that I just copied in
221:27 

221:27 there to make a question. I guess we may
221:29 

221:29 not have the absolute latest ones here.
221:32 

221:32 So, um what what would help your
221:34 

221:34 organization most in implementing or
221:36 

221:36 improving your digital delivery
221:38 

221:38 information management process? Yeah.
221:40 

221:40 So, this is trying to get at where might
221:42 

221:42 we go from here if there was uh interest
221:46 

221:46 in in doing more with this. Um, and
221:51 

221:51 we've got some choices there. I think
221:52 

221:52 you can um I thought you could take as
221:56 

221:56 many as you wanted, but I don't know if
221:58 

221:58 it's restricted to two or not. Um,
222:06 

222:06 >> I think they're not necessarily mutually
222:08 

222:08 exclusive. uh but it's good to see which
222:12 

222:12 ones are maybe the most uh needed an
222:15 

222:15 implementation
222:17 

222:17 uh template for doing things. Uh I think
222:20 

222:20 you know to some extent that's what Paul
222:22 

222:22 shared with us and a templated approach
222:25 

222:25 to progression of applying ISO 19650
222:29 

222:29 which I think has some potential merit.
222:33 

222:33 case studies are always good to see
222:35 

222:35 guidance documents to the extent that
222:38 

222:38 those can be shared. Um I think some are
222:42 

222:42 being shared already by Arizona and
222:44 

222:44 Oklahoma anyway and um maybe from what
222:48 

222:48 Devin said, California's sharing some
222:50 

222:50 things
222:51 

222:51 in their standard documents.
222:55 

222:55 Yeah, getting the alignment between
222:56 

222:56 technology and standards important to
222:59 

222:59 keep the focus on and keep the pressure
223:01 

223:01 on as the clients the DOS um you know
223:05 

223:05 can can seek that of course has to fit
223:08 

223:08 together with the uh vendor's plans and
223:11 

223:11 everything but I think they're they're
223:13 

223:13 responsive to where the pressure comes
223:15 

223:15 from
223:18 

223:18 >> and yeah workforce development and
223:20 

223:20 training okay I think we have one more
223:22 

223:22 question.
223:25 

223:25 >> Okay, we have one more of the process
223:27 

223:27 workshop questions. Um yeah, so this um
223:31 

223:31 speaks a little bit to what Michael and
223:34 

223:34 Katie brought up potentially if there's
223:37 

223:37 interest in participating in something
223:40 

223:40 to develop um information
223:44 

223:44 management processes and best practices.
223:46 

223:46 Further some kind of effort uh to come
223:50 

223:50 together on this um and uh understood
223:54 

223:54 more information would be helpful to
223:56 

223:56 before committing to anything. uh so
223:58 

223:58 more can be brought up but I think this
224:01 

224:01 shows there's at least uh some
224:04 

224:04 endorsement for continuing to pursue
224:07 

224:07 this area and see what role the DDSG can
224:11 

224:11 have and at least fostering what this
224:13 

224:13 would turn into. Um and if you you know
224:16 

224:16 also if you are interested in uh what
224:20 

224:20 Oklahoma brought up there's a chance to
224:22 

224:22 potentially
224:23 

224:23 uh work together on ADCMS grants. So
224:26 

224:26 that could be uh something to pursue
224:29 

224:29 with them and maybe this group can keep
224:32 

224:32 uh some thread going on how that could
224:34 

224:34 work or who would come together on it.
224:38 

224:38 Any
224:40 

224:40 uh comments on this uh point from anyone
224:54 

224:54 good um well um I think that's that's
224:58 

224:58 really what we had uh for the
225:01 

225:01 information process management process
225:04 

225:04 workshop. I hope we've been able to
225:06 

225:06 bring some uh uh visibility to this
225:11 

225:11 area. Um I think there's obviously quite
225:14 

225:14 a bit going on, but there are needs
225:16 

225:16 still to keep working on um
225:19 

225:19 standardizing and uh improving uh how
225:23 

225:23 things are done uh that are that are
225:26 

225:26 standard driven. Uh so there's that's
225:29 

225:29 what we hope to get to get some more uh
225:33 

225:33 insight into and I think we were able to
225:35 

225:35 do that with the excellent uh case
225:38 

225:38 studies that we heard from uh both
225:40 

225:40 Arizona and Oklahoma and the comments
225:44 

225:44 from Devon as well as uh Paul's u uh
225:49 

225:49 good information about what ISO 19650 is
225:52 

225:52 and how to implement it. Um, it's good
225:55 

225:55 to go to the source sometimes and I
225:57 

225:57 think we were able to do that. We heard
225:58 

225:58 yesterday about how there's a lot going
226:01 

226:01 on internationally. Um I thought Devin's
226:04 

226:04 comment was interesting that it does
226:06 

226:06 need to be adapted and that's where this
226:09 

226:09 generation of a forward and an annex
226:11 

226:11 here for the US and also for uh
226:15 

226:15 guidelines are important because you
226:17 

226:17 know you the standards out of the box
226:20 

226:20 get you part of the way there but you
226:22 

226:22 still have to answer a lot of questions.
226:24 

226:24 Uh so those things can uh fit together
226:27 

226:27 to do that and guidelines and it could
226:30 

226:30 be state generated but in a perfect
226:33 

226:33 world maybe there'd be a common set of
226:34 

226:34 guidelines that are collectively
226:37 

226:37 generated that would then be able to be
226:40 

226:40 augmented and adjusted by by the
226:43 

226:43 different u implementers different
226:45 

226:45 states. So
226:48 

226:48 um some some things to work towards.
226:51 

226:51 Anyone else have any closing comments on
226:54 

226:54 our workshop uh on information
226:56 

226:56 management that they want to add on
227:02 

227:02 online or in the room?
227:05 

227:05 >> You can use the next question.
227:11 

227:11 >> What's that?
227:14 

227:14 >> Uh we have the closing one. Yeah. Yeah.
227:17 

227:17 Okay. Well, then um I guess everybody is
227:21 

227:21 uh gotten a lot and ready to move on.
227:23 

227:23 That's great. We're ready to wrap up our
227:26 

227:26 uh meeting of the digital delivery
227:28 

227:28 stakeholder group. So, Matt, we do have
227:30 

227:30 a closing poll question just to get your
227:33 

227:33 feedback on the meeting. And Matt, I
227:35 

227:35 know you probably want to say a few
227:36 

227:36 things. So, we'll open up the question
227:38 

227:38 and turn it over to Matt to wrap things
227:41 

227:41 up for us.
227:42 

227:42 >> Yeah. Uh, first, uh, James Gray wanted
227:46 

227:46 me to remind, uh, those of you that have
227:50 

227:50 Activated CMS events that he did send
227:53 

227:53 out correspondence about the next
227:55 

227:55 planned collaboration event scheduled
227:58 

227:58 for Salt Lake City, Utah on June 3rd and
228:01 

228:01 4th.
228:02 

228:02 So, um if you are an ADCMS uh project uh
228:08 

228:08 grantee um and you did not get that
228:11 

228:11 correspondence
228:13 

228:13 um follow up with James directly
228:16 

228:16 and then I will just wrap up I'll come
228:20 

228:20 up to the camera make sure I'm on
228:23 

228:23 um
228:25 

228:25 just by saying uh first of all thanks to
228:29 

228:29 the AV staff uh for the excellent set up
228:32 

228:32 and support. Um, this has been uh very
228:36 

228:36 well done, I think, and kind of raises
228:38 

228:38 the bar for anything that I could expect
228:40 

228:40 to do at Turner Fairbags. But,
228:43 

228:43 um, thank you so much for that. Uh, I
228:46 

228:46 think it really worked out well and
228:48 

228:48 allowed us to to really collaborate
228:50 

228:50 externally with the Zoom participants as
228:53 

228:53 well. Um, certainly thank you uh, as
228:57 

228:57 DDSG members for being here uh, taking
229:01 

229:01 the time out of I know your busy
229:03 

229:03 schedule. Everybody it seems like has
229:06 

229:06 way too much on their schedule and
229:07 

229:07 agenda these days and asked to do a lot.
229:10 

229:10 So, thank you so much for continuing to
229:13 

229:13 be engaged and participate with us.
229:16 

229:16 Thank you uh who have stayed the entire
229:20 

229:20 time. Uh very much appreciated. I think
229:23 

229:23 the dialogue and the questions and the
229:25 

229:25 feedback
229:27 

229:27 um were uh very meaningful and it just
229:30 

229:30 shows that there is interest and and
229:32 

229:32 people are finding some value from this.
229:35 

229:35 We Roger and I um thanks Roger, thanks
229:39 

229:39 Rackley uh and Mona had to depart um for
229:43 

229:43 their support here as well. Um we will
229:47 

229:47 be corresponding and following up with
229:49 

229:49 you on a few items um specifically for
229:53 

229:53 example again scheduling and timing. Um
229:57 

229:57 remind everybody the mural will be you
229:59 

229:59 know rem open and available. So if you
230:02 

230:02 know as you're going home and something
230:04 

230:04 pops in your mind, you're like, "Oh, I
230:06 

230:06 should have uh should have, you know,
230:07 

230:07 commented on that or provided that
230:09 

230:09 perspective or whatever." Um, you know,
230:12 

230:12 you can still access the mural board and
230:14 

230:14 and add your thoughts. Um,
230:18 

230:18 any pros, cons, you know, anything. Uh,
230:22 

230:22 you know, sky's the limit. Um, with
230:26 

230:26 that,
230:28 

230:28 I think the only thing that Roger and I
230:30 

230:30 had talked about was again based on the
230:33 

230:33 ISO activities and kind of the
230:36 

230:36 reformation of the tag is putting some
230:39 

230:39 effort uh into um the preamble uh and
230:45 

230:45 the uh those items that would represent
230:48 

230:48 the US within the ISO standard. And so
230:50 

230:50 we will follow up with the group on that
230:53 

230:53 item specifically as well. And uh I hope
230:57 

230:57 you have very safe travels home and you
231:00 

231:00 don't get home too late tonight.
231:03 

231:03 Thank you.